Attorney Tad A. Nelson Discusses The Spike In Mental Health Dockets Impacting Divorce & Society

Mediate This! Podcast:

Hi, my name is Sydney Mitchell. Hi, I’m Matthew Brickman, Florida Supreme court mediator. Welcome to the Mediate This! Podcast where we discuss everything mediation and conflict resolution.

Tad A. Nelson (00:13):
Well, two things. First off, you know, we have, uh, huge mental health dockets these days where the courts are finally acknowledging that there’s a mental health issue out there. And, you know, both me and my partner had been, you know, instrumental and highly involved in both the Galveston and the Houston area. Okay. So the bottom line is you can take people that really do have these huge mental health, you know, problems. You know, if you take somebody like that and you compound their issues by throwing a felony on them, you know, they might never get employment. Never. So you’ve really got to decide, you know, and that’s, you know, it’s funny that you, you know, the people that you were talking about dealing with, probably people that aren’t shortsighted. And, you know, that’s what’s so important here, why these mental health dockets are so important.

Tad A. Nelson (00:59):
Because if you just look for the immediate, you know, uh, goal of, of solving a, a temporary issue, you know, yeah. You’re gonna punish these people, but then you realize all that does is mess society up. So these people need the mental health, you know, and the mental health dockets have been fabulous. So, um, they’ve allowed a lot of people to get through the programs, get their help, and then get back out to society, matriculate back without having to have, you know, records. And that allows them to work. ’cause first off, if you, you know, the record’s gonna be bad enough, and then if you Right, you know, you’re not as solid as other people, you’re, you’ve got even more problems getting a job. Now in the family law, you know, that’s a tougher nut to crack with mental health because there’s not a program I can, I can’t take a, you know, I can’t have a client come to me, and I’m sure you’ve seen this, that literally, you know, they have some mental health issues.

Tad A. Nelson (01:55):
Right? I, I, I can’t, I can suggest, you know, I can ask them to go get some help, but I can’t force it up on them. Right. So now I’m having to juggle their mental health issues while at the same time trying to get them something that’s in their best interest, which they might not grasp. And like you said, you think managing expectations are tough with the everyday person. Take the mental health problem and try to manage expectations. You can’t even, sometimes, you know, you, the one thing I’ve learned about the practice of laws, especially in today’s world, you’ve got to go where your client is. You know, you’ve gotta get there somehow. And it’s tougher with a mental health, you know, issue because, you know, where they are is not reality, you know? Right. It might not be a place that we can ever have a legitimate, you know, reasonable, responsible conversation.

Tad A. Nelson (02:48):
I mean, we try like, hell sure. You know, which, and that’s why, you know, that’s why mine and your hair is so gray, you know, from just, just from just talking. I mean, but, you know, we’re obligated to keep trying and, and, and I don’t mind. And it’s part of the challenge, you know, Hey, yeah. We’re like baseball players. We’re not gonna bat a thousand. Yeah. You know, we gotta bat as high as we can. We gotta keep, you know, keep doing the work, show up every day with a smile on our face and, and realize that, you know, we’re gonna lose. You know, and that’s the hardest thing to do as a lawyer, is just at some point you’ve gotta understand that you do lose. And that doesn’t make, that’s not bad. It’s just the way the system is. But, you know, the, the, the reward is in the fight. You know, fight the good fight, you know, add your son, add your light to the sum of light, you know, that’s Sure. You know, and, but mental health, it’s a, it’s a tough one, you know, you know it. Yeah. I mean, you know, when you’ve got, especially when just it’s so bad when there’s just in a mediation when one side is, is you can see mental health issues. Yeah. That’s the hardest thing for you to sell, I would imagine. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman (03:56):
Well, and, and, and as you’re saying, and I, and I think this ties in a little bit even to what we were talking about, uh, previously about DUIs and about that being a disease. From what I hear that you’re saying is like, you know, with the mental health docket and stuff, the difference, I think the, the real difference is, is the approach punitive or rehabilitation.

Tad A. Nelson (04:19):
Right. Exactly.

Matthew Brickman (04:21):
Like, do we just want to put a bandaid on it and punish them? Or is the goal to say, Hey, look, you’re human made a mistake, or you’ve got some mental health issues. Yeah. How can we improve that, not compound it, and then label you and make it even worse?

Tad A. Nelson (04:42):
Absolutely. You’re, you’re hitting the nail in the head. Yeah. And it’s kind of funny, you’re sitting in Florida, right? Right. Is that, yeah. So you’re in a fairly conservative place as well. And I’m here in Texas and, you know, I’m not the only liberal in Texas, but I can fit ’em all in my pool, you know? Right. You know? Right, right. So, but it’s, it’s funny because you do realize that, you know, these issues. It is, it is more about rehabilitation. And that’s the beauty of the mental health courts because, you know, I will tell you this, one of my demented pleasures, and it’s not, you know, it’s not a, you know, I, I’m, I don’t celebrate it, but, you know, I’m in a fairly affluent part of town, so I represent a lot of chil, you know, young people. So they come in here, they come in here into my office with their children, and, you know, they, everybody, you know, we’re all worried about getting our kids to college.

Tad A. Nelson (05:35):
Right. That’s our number one concern. And I sit here and I watch these people who have been voting Republican have been ultra conservative, and now they watch these draconian laws, how their kid is boxed in and they’re furious about it. You know, they just can’t understand, well, how can there not be any discretion? Well, y’all been voting for no discretion for 20 years. That’s why. Yeah. You know, I mean, that’s always like, I didn’t think that was gonna happen to me. But, you know, now that it does, you can literally, I’m sitting there with these intelligent people and I watch the light go off, you know? Yeah. I mean, boom. And they, they finally are understanding that, you know, just because, you know, I, I, I see a little, I can find good in a bad person, or I can find an exception to these crazy punishments, you know, that doesn’t make me some nut, but they finally get it. That there are just, you know, there are places where we don’t need that. You know, not every child, you know, especially nowadays with these phones, you know, how many crimes an average high school kid commits a a a day

Matthew Brickman (06:43):
Easy.

Tad A. Nelson (06:44):
Oh my God. And some of ’em are felonies that would cause sexual registration for the rest of their lives. Sure. That’s crazy. And it’s funny when you know these parents, well, my kid can’t register as a sexual offender for the rest of his life. Well, yeah. Can, I mean, we’re gonna fight. Like, it’s a real possibility. And, and it’s just, you know, when, when it, it, it’s so, you know, like I said, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a demented pleasure, but when you see somebody grasp, you know, how draconian some of these rules and laws are, ’cause it’s so easy to vote for the guy that’s saying, we’re gonna punish, punish, punish. You know, and then, um, you know, and then they’re like, well, wasn’t supposed to be my kid. You know? You know, and it’s, but it’s, it’s ridiculous. I mean, it’s,

Matthew Brickman (07:32):
Well, and so, so question for you because, ’cause you said, you said you’re like, I, I, I don’t remember if you said half or somewhere along that line of finishing your, uh, course of study in technology. Right.

Tad A. Nelson (07:45):
But I stopped that long ago that I kind of bailed out. I bailed out of that to start the, uh, the, uh, the master’s in forensics. Okay. Like, okay, alright. You, but, but I do, but I, but I, you know, I, I, I’ve done, like you were talking about with the, the training, I’ve done a lot of forensic training Yeah. For the, uh, child pornography courses, you know, cases.

Matthew Brickman (08:03):
Alright. So

Tad A. Nelson (08:04):
There’s so much involved in that.

Matthew Brickman (08:06):
So that was where I wanted to go. So in my parenting plans, um, and, you know, they’re always evolving because people, not only are people getting worse, oh, they’re so creative. Mm-hmm

Tad A. Nelson (08:20):
<affirmative>.

Matthew Brickman (08:21):
Like, what, like you thought of that. Like, at what point did you think that was a good idea? <laugh>. So then, so then what? So I’m adding to the parenting plan going, okay, we’re gonna make this a rule for everybody because if you thought that was okay and you got in trouble, now we’re gonna make sure. So, so what’s interesting, and, and, and I wanna get your take on this, especially from, from a science and a technology standpoint, um, and also from a law standpoint, I mean, I think, I think all of your, uh, all of your knowledge and expertise is gonna come in here. So I had a mediation where there was a 4-year-old that was acting out inappropriately sexually at daycare. Okay. So this 4-year-old was not just grabbing their own privates, but was trying to grab the privates of other people. And then when these children would resist, he would punch them.

Matthew Brickman (09:27):
And the, and the mother is blaming the father. The father is blaming the mother. And, and then the father then also then also gives us the information that this is not, and the reason why the father’s blaming the mother is because the mother put the child into the daycare and it’s her best friend’s daycare. And the, that’s why he’s blaming her because the father says that he overheard one of the teachers saying this to another parent, that this is happening not just to his kid, but there’s another kid that’s doing this. And so they’re going, this is being shared and learned in the daycare. The mother’s going, no, the father has to be showing the kid things, doing things or whatnot. So what I added to my parenting plan had in a, in the child’s safety section, because of this one particular case, it says, both parents shall use his or her best efforts to ensure that the child is not willfully exposed to any sexually inappropriate content.

Matthew Brickman (10:44):
For example, video or photographic pornography, sex acts, adult movies, or TV that might lead a child to exhibit inappropriate behavior. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Resulting in potential accusations in future court intervention. Okay. Brilliant. I’ve added it to my parenting plan. But as you said, I mean, you have a phone, you could commit felonies with a swipe every minute of every day. Like, I remember growing up, I, I turned 50 last year and I remember growing up, like, if you wanted to get ahold of pornography, you actually had to like go to a store and find the magazine that had the black mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it was behind the counter and you had to show your ID to get it. And then you hid it. And what now? Oh, with the click you can find anything and everything you could ever want. Things that were never allowed to be put in a magazine before. Right. Right. So now with as easy as it is, and like you said, people come in and they’ve got their kids, and I’m dealing with kids, and whether you’re dealing with sex acts and family or criminal, technologically, it’s at our fingertips. How do you, as an attorney, and, you know, with, with all of your scientific and, and, and your technological information, how do you, I guess how do you advise clients? How do you protect clients? How do you represent clients with these types of things come up because it’s prevalent these days?

Tad A. Nelson (12:21):
No, I, you know, we’ve got, we’ve got some good friends that are on a couple of the school boards and we’ve been trying to make a presentation. You know, we, I honestly believe that we, you know, the, the only thing you can do is make people aware, you know, is educate. That’s really all you can do at, at, you know, you know, once the cat’s, you know, out of the bag, you know, you’re, it’s, but because let’s take it school, you know, and I, I’m, I’m hoping you’re, you’re edit this because it, it might be a little too serious for you, but, you know, let’s, you know, kids, you can’t stop high school’s, kids from, from playing around, they’re gonna do that. Right. More powerful and, and a hundred percent legal. But let’s just say, you know, I, it’s funny you said you just turned 50, I turned 60 this coming up summer, and I have one child, I have a 7-year-old. And I gotta tell you, I’ll digress real quick. But as far as my practice and family law, I’m immensely a better family lawyer today with a child than I was 10 years ago. Sure, sure, sure. There is, there are,

Matthew Brickman (13:23):
It changes your point of view.

Tad A. Nelson (13:25):
Amen. You know, there are things that having a child that, that you are in charge of, that you have to watch out for, changes your whole outlook. Not on life, not just on life, but on little decisions and little ways you handle other things. Sure. And once you understand that some of the little events, and I’m, you know, if you’re a good parent and you see some of the, the leveraging that parents use with their children and the, some of the ways they put their children in harm’s way of all this emotional nonsense, some people shouldn’t have a gerbil much less a child. You know what I mean? Right,

Matthew Brickman (14:02):
Right.

Tad A. Nelson (14:02):
I mean, it’s, it’s offensive. But, but going back to, you know, the, the things with the child, you know, you can’t stop him from playing around. But here, for example, this is like the, let’s just say, you know, your daughter is dating a boy and she wants to show that boy, you know, her boobs, and she sends a picture and he gets it. Okay. Now he can have that picture and do whatever he wants, but the minute he shows that to one of his buddies selling him, that’s how quick it can happen. You know? Wow. And that is possession of child porn. Now he can have it because it was sent to him from her. Wait, wait,

Matthew Brickman (14:37):
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on. We’re talking like underage, like, like high schoolers, right?

Tad A. Nelson (14:46):
High school kids.

Matthew Brickman (14:47):
Alright, so, so if my daughter and I have a daughter, I actually have a son and a daughter now, they’re both, uh, they’re, they’re 27 and 29. Um, I, I had kids early 21 and 23, so I had my kids early. But what you’re saying is, if my daughter, when she was in high school, had sent a picture of her boobs to her boyfriend, I mean, I would say morally no, don’t do that. Right. Especially as a father, I’m like, no, don’t do that.

Tad A. Nelson (15:15):
Of course not.

Matthew Brickman (15:17):
Like, like those things change. Just like you said, when you become a parent, like before I had a daughter. Yeah. Send me a picture of your boobs. Come on, I wanna see your boobs. Now that I have a dollar mm-hmm <affirmative>. Don’t you dare send your boots. Amen. To anybody. Amen. Right. Like, it changes your point of view. So you’re saying that if my daughter had sent her boyfriend a picture of her boobs, and let’s say

Tad A. Nelson (15:38):
Under 17. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman (15:39):
Under 17. And he had a, other than more like, okay, not a problem. Legally not a problem. But the minute that he shows that to someone now it’s considered that he’s in possession of child porn.

Tad A. Nelson (15:53):
No, that’s not what makes it, because he’s, he’s distributing it. But the reality of it is they could, could

Matthew Brickman (15:59):
Distributing, not

Tad A. Nelson (16:00):
Possess, they could make the, they could make the argument that he is in possession. I’ve never seen that charge. ’cause kids are gonna send back and forth. Yeah. I mean, that’s just a stupid charge.

Matthew Brickman (16:09):
So a distribution,

Tad A. Nelson (16:10):
Right. The distribution is where they get ’em, and that’s where we see it all the time. So, and that, like, what they’ll do is they’ll snapchat it to their buddy and then they Snapchat it to their buddy, and then that buddy will send it out. You know, and there’s always some place in this whole web that somebody finally gets napped. And it might not even go back to the beginning, right. It might be just in the middle of the link, whoever gets napped. And then that person’s looking at the possibility, you know, of, of being charged with possession of child porn or distributing child porn. And that could come with 10 years of registration depending on what their age is. Can you imagine?

Matthew Brickman (16:46):
Okay, so, so, so Ted I’ve had this in mediation, but I, but nobody has brought up and said, oh, that could be, because I’ve had that where they’ve had the parents that have been arguing because yes, one of their kids did this and whatnot. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I’ve had that did not know that piece of information though. And, and, well, and, and so that’s why I have this in there, because for me as a mediator, I am all about preventative maintenance so that you don’t have to get involved to do damage control. Right. Right. Yeah. And so that’s why I put things like this in my parenting plans going, alright, you’re getting divorced or you were never married you, but we’re, we’re setting up the rules. Be aware, pay attention. These are the things you need to pay attention to. And a lot of this, it’s funny, so I became a mediator after I got divorced and spent 12 years fighting with my ex-wife in court post-divorce.

Matthew Brickman (17:49):
Wow. But all of that, all of that gave me the passion, the knowledge. And so not only did I then go to school and get my degrees to be educated to do this, to sit for the Florida Supreme Court and get my certifications, but I also have life experience that I bring into this. And so my parenting plans, I’m like, okay, I’ve run into this and I’ve been in court on this, so I know I’m gonna put this in there, so you’re not me. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But then from doing, you know, mediations, I mean, I’ve, I’ve done this for, what is it? Yeah, it’s, it’s been 18 years. June will be 19 years. I’ve done, uh, 3,300 plus mediations. Wow. I have mediated for over 11 and a half thousand hours of my life, I’ve seen a thing or two. And so as people keep doing this, as society is getting worse, not better, right?

Matthew Brickman (18:47):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I’ve, I put things in there going, okay, don’t do this. Okay. No, we’re gonna put all these protective measures, like you said, so that people become aware it’s not gonna, it’s, it’s not gonna stop them from being stupid. No. If they’re gonna do it, they’re gonna do it and then fine. But at least from a mediator standpoint, I’m going, okay, look, if we need to set the rules of it, I’m like, there’s a reason why we call it a parenting plan, not a child parent. These, this is a plan for parents, not children. This is how you are to behave as the adult. If we can put it in there. Look, if it’s in there and then you choose to violate it, that’s on you. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Now that’s on you. We’ve made you as aware, as aware can be. We also have things in there on the child lock and tracking on phones.

Matthew Brickman (19:37):
That’s a huge thing in divorce is, you know, a parent buys a child a phone, and then, you know, the parent that buys it, it’s on their account so they can track it. But the other parent is like, oh, they’re tracking me. And it’s like, no, it’s, it’s hooked up. And they were like, okay, you’ve got exchange passwords and you both have the tracking and these, like, all these technological things that we used to not have to deal with. Yeah. You know, I mean, I’ve got in mind that, you know, under shared parental, you’ve gotta agree to vaccines, shots, gender reassignment hormone medication, things that we never dealt with fi you know, five, 10 years ago that now yes, the court is now having these arguments. I mean, I’ve got in here shelter in place, lockdowns, because what happens when you’re in a shelter in place, but we have a court order.

Matthew Brickman (20:30):
Well, Fort Lauderdale, Broward County was the first court in the country to deal with that in Covid. And they, you know, and so how do you navigate a parenting plan when you have a federal mandate going Right. Shelter in place, you know? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. We’re on lockdown. How do you navigate? So I’ve got that in a parenting plan. I’ve got hurricane evac. I mean, you’re in the Gulf of state area. You guys get some hurricane stuff. Oh. And so I even have in my parenting plans, okay, what do you do if you, if it’s your time sharing, there’s a hurricane evac, because I, I don’t want you to have to be going to court. Go and hire the attorney. They didn’t gimme my, my time sharing. There was a cat four hurricane <laugh>. Like, what do you mean we’re getting outta here? No, you violated a court order. Did they technically for good reason. Well, so how do we navigate that?

Tad A. Nelson (21:26):
Just last year, we, we took some, uh, we took some custody away from a, a, a woman who didn’t evacuate, was in one of the low lying areas, which it was like literally she had to be the mayor of crazy, of crazy town not to evacuate. I mean, it was that bad. And, you know, it was an easy argument to the judge that it was, it was careless self

Matthew Brickman (21:45):
Behavior. Failure to protect. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. We have, we have that. I mean, like, and, and, and I, I was just having a conversation with a relative the other day where it’s a potential divorce, the husband mental health mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and she’s like, no, you know what, you know, and, and department children services came in and says, look, he’s not to be alone with the children, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And she’s like, you know, and I’m like, are we getting divorced? Like, what are you doing? Like this is like, this is dangerous. Right? One of the little kids is in therapy, the other one not yet. And it’s like, what do we do? And it’s like, you gotta be careful because him doing what he’s doing is bad. But you Right. You could get failure to protect, which failure to protect is almost worse. Because if he’s got mental health, just like we were talking mental health, it’s a disease. Okay. How do we help that? But you, you are fine, and you don’t think anything is wrong with this, and you are not protecting the children.

Tad A. Nelson (22:48):
I agree. You’re,

Matthew Brickman (22:50):
I mean, these are the things that we, that you as an attorney and me as a mediator, we’re having to dance around these issues, which yeah, society’s getting worse, not better. But then that adds to stress. How do you deal with clients that come in just stress to the nines and like unrealistic expectations and their stress is real, like, and, and their fear is real and their uncertainty going through a divorce is real. How do you, how do you manage that? Well, do you have, do you have a special technique or do you have advice for the listeners? No. How do you, how do you deal with that?

Tad A. Nelson (23:30):
You know, I you’re probably the same, you know, uh, I spend most of my out of work hours with people, you know, texting or calling, you know, you just basically, you, you, you give ’em your time and your reassurance. I mean, there’s no, I, I, at least I haven’t found any, any magic advice to give anybody. I mean, you’re gonna deal with stress, people, you’re gonna deal with, you know, um, people that are, you know, in a lot deeper than they can handle. I mean, a lot of this goes way beyond, you know, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re emotional, you know, <laugh>, uh, ability to, to handle things and, you know, sure. Uh, uh, you just, you just gotta kind of, you know, hold their hand and be there for ’em. You know, it’s just, it’s, uh, it’s just not a, a good situation. I mean, hopefully, and again, you, you hit the nail on the head earlier when you’re talking about managing expectations, you know, maybe, maybe that is the panacea to, to helping out these people Right. Is try trying to, you know, make them understand. But, you know, if there’s something, if there’s a magic pill out there or something, you know, something to say or, you know, a magic quote, or, I’d love to hear it because I haven’t seen it. Yeah. You know,

Matthew Brickman (24:40):
Water.

Tad A. Nelson (24:42):
Yeah. <laugh>,

Matthew Brickman (24:42):
There was water. A certain, like, like a potion. It’d be like, so, so, so when you’re representing clients and you know, they’re, they’re, you know, maybe going through a custody battle or whatnot. What’s, what’s, what’s your number one, you know, advice that you give to parents going, all right, thi this is the best way, or this is how you need to focus on protecting your child’s future. You know, sort of maybe changing their point of view against, well, how do you protect ’em against the other person, but how do you protect your child’s future against the world? It’s sort of, you know, how do you, how do you manage that? Yeah.

Tad A. Nelson (25:29):
I’ll tell you, there’s, there’s kind of, that’s a two-parter. Okay? So number one, when I get somebody to come in, the number one thing I have to get them to understand is where they are. Now, you know, if, if, if the father comes to me and he’s been doing, you know, five to 10% of the child rearing you, you’re not gonna walk away with custody. You know, it’s not gonna happen. And that’s what you gotta make ’em understand from the get go. If I ask you, you know, who are your, who are your kids’ best friends? And you don’t know who’s the homeroom teacher, you know, who teaches him gym, you know, who’s teaching him social studies, and you don’t know any teachers, you know, you’re not gonna get custody if you’ve never sent an email to a teacher. I’m sorry. You’re not walking away with that child.

Tad A. Nelson (26:14):
And that’s what these people, the minute they come in and they wanna file, they wanna file this week, they, they want to go after custody, and then they wanna start changing everything. You know, I’m sorry, the year leading up to the divorce is not when you can be super dad. You know, real life is what defines you. How are you handling this? Hey, were you showing up to every softball game before we filed? No, you weren’t. You were making one out of four. Now you’ve made every one. You know, it’s not real. But so number one, the, and it goes along with this, is if there’s children, you, you, you know, as much as you think this is about you, it’s not about you. Right. It’s about the children. And that’s why the standards and most of the states, you know, are the best <crosstalk>, best

Matthew Brickman (27:03):
Interest of the children.

Tad A. Nelson (27:04):
Yeah. And once you understand that, you can kind of understand where the courts are, and they’re trying to help you transition this child from this bad situation that you created. Yeah. Yeah. And that they don’t deserve to have ruining their lives. And you know what? You’re just gonna have to be a better person and a bigger person, and you might not get custody. And my God, when I hear these people whine about their child support, you know, you know, people think,

Matthew Brickman (27:31):
Oh my gosh, I know that’s so, like child support is, child support does not Alright. In Florida, in Florida, they have not changed child support. Like there’s no inflation has been taken into account or cost of living since the seventies.

Tad A. Nelson (27:48):
Oh my God.

Matthew Brickman (27:49):
And so, and so people are like, well child, that’s not enough to raise a child. We’re like, no, it’s not like, I agree with you, but apparently there’s powers that be, that sit up in Tallahassee or for you that sit in Austin that are smarter than the rest of us that have come up with a formula. No, it does not make sense. Alright. I do have something for you. You, you just brought something up and you said if it was a magic saying or a magic something that you could use, there’s something you, you, you just brought something up and I was like, oh, yeah. All right. So when I’m mediating Tad and it just, all of a sudden things are going off the rails,

Tad A. Nelson (28:35):
I’ve

Matthew Brickman (28:35):
Been there and they’re just, they’re just fighting and everything. Just like you said, like this is not about them. This is about the child. Right. This is what I’ve told them. And this seems to, this seems to get everybody focused back on what they should be focused on, which is best interest of the child, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So this is what I tell ’em. I said, I can guarantee you this, your, your child’s soul before you called that innocent soul to this planet to be born was not standing next to God almighty himself going, yeah, those are the people that I want. I wanna go through that situation. Oh yeah, I think I, oh yeah, that’s what I want for my life. Your kid didn’t pick this,

Tad A. Nelson (29:28):
Right?

Matthew Brickman (29:29):
So you, you gotta pay attention. They didn’t ask for this. They were innocent. You called them here, you had sex, you made that child, you birthed that child. You’re parenting that child. That child didn’t pick you. ’cause I’m sure they didn’t want to be part of this chaos. Right? Right. But then I tell ’em, I said, but okay, I’ll give you that. Let me ask you something. Let grandparents, and they’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, and your grandparents, they had your parents, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And your parents were a lot like your grandparents in certain ways. Good and bad characteristics, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And your parents, they obviously had you, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you’re probably, you know, a mixture of good and bad, you know, character traits from your parents. Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman (30:27):
Don’t think that your kids aren’t watching. Don’t think that your kids aren’t paying attention. You know? In fact, did you know that this whole thing, all this argument, this noise, this mediation has nothing to do with you? And that’s usually tad when I get a strange look because to them, I’m fighting, this is about me, and, and we’re married and this is my divorce. And I’m like, and this is nothing to do with, you watch, you had great grandparents who had your grandparents, who had your parents, who had you, and you have your children. What we’re doing today has nothing to do with you at all. In fact, what we’re doing is we are changing the tone and the atmosphere, and we are restructuring your family for your unborn grandchildren. That’s what we’re doing. Usually at that moment, Ted, somebody cries, really, somebody starts to cry because it hits ’em going, oh my gosh. Like, okay, if this is generational and we are looking at setting something up for the best interest of your child, and your child is watching how you’re behaving and how you’re behaving is gonna affect your child, and that’s how they’re gonna parent your grandchildren, you better be paying attention.

Matthew Brickman (31:56):
And that’s when usually it gets easier to then transition and finish the mediation, manage the expectations, deal with whatever emotional noise that was clouding their decision making and their feelings. Because this is best interest of the children. This isn’t about you. And when I, when I walk them through that, it’s like, um, yeah. This isn’t about you power grabbing so that you can save face at your kids’ little league game or to your parents or to your neighbor, or, you know, like, this is, where’s your kid gonna flourish? How’s your kid gonna flourish if you haven’t been around? Do you really want to nuke the entire situation just so you can save face? Yeah. That’s good. And that, that’s how, I mean, if, if there’s a magic pill, magic saying magic water, that’s how, usually when I describe it like that, it just like, oh, okay.

Matthew Brickman (33:11):
Yeah. This is not about me because I look dad, when I went through my divorce, it was all about me. I had a six and 8-year-old. You said you had to, you have a 7-year-old. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I had a six and an 8-year-old. Oh. It was all about me. And I, Chad, I was doing it for the kids. Oh yeah. I’m, I’m doing this for the kid, I’m fighting for the kids. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I was holy justified and right. And in hindsight, I was selfish and destructive and self-centered. And I used the kids as an excuse because I was hurt and I was bitter and I felt betrayed and it was about me. And you know what? I left a wake of damage that now even with adult children at 27, I mean, last night, last night, I mean, it’s Sunday morning last night.

Matthew Brickman (34:09):
I text my son apologizing to my 27-year-old for saying things that have hurt him recently. I’m still making up going, you know, buddy, I’m sorry I flew off the handle. I shouldn’t have said that. I should have been more considerate and I’m sorry, like still dealing with hurts from the past and different things and you know, yeah. Parenting changes you, divorce changes you. Um, so yeah. It’s, it’s okay. It, it’s a rewarding business. Now, you’ve been doing this for 30 years. Lemme ask you this. 34 years. 34 years. I look forward to 34 years doing this. But here’s the one thing I’ve noticed. Um, and, and it, it, it’s, I’ve asked it and I’ve seen it of criminal family attorneys as well as family mediators. Okay. That have done this for so long. And I think I know the answer just looking at you, talking with you, just seeing, you know, even hearing your stories and the smile on your face when you’re going Yeah. We just gotta bring the light. The longer you do this, I have found it’ll do one of two things to a person. It will either make you an extremely grateful human being, or it will make you an extremely cynical and jaded human being.

Tad A. Nelson (35:45):
Yeah. You know, I wish I, is that right? I agree with you. And I wish I could say I was a hundred percent the first one and not any of the, the latter. Uh, I, I would, I, I got to say I I am extremely grateful. It’s been a, it’s been a, you know, I gotta tell you though, you know, from being a lawyer and dealing with people, there’s days when I’m driving home and I see the help wanted sign at pay less. It’s, it’s hard not to pull in there <laugh> Yeah. And fill out an app. But, uh, overall, you know, um, it, it’s, it’s been, it’s been good. I, I, I enjoy it. And it’s, it’s funny, you know, I, I went to a seminar, I been about eight or nine months ago, and that’s when I came back from it. I’d saw a lot of the things, you know, you’ve got a theory on like older lawyers and this the kind of, you know, you, you, me, and you’ve got some similarities. We’re, we’re energetic. Uh, we’re always, you know, I wanna do better tomorrow than I did today. Yes. And that’s just, and you’re clearly that guy too. Even,

Matthew Brickman (36:46):
Even if you didn’t do anything wrong today. Exactly. You wanna try to approve. You didn’t make a mistake today. You didn’t kill someone. Right. I wanna do better.

Tad A. Nelson (36:54):
Right. I wanna learn more. I wanna be smarter. I wanna be wiser. And, and that’s good that those are the people that really can progress the world. And you know, you’re never, you’re never boxed in. You’re not close. And it’s funny, you know, I, I went to this seminar and I, I realized, you know, I’m about to turn 60 and, you know, I kind of, kind of wanted to reinvent some things about myself. Okay. You know, uh, okay. Because you look back and you look at these great lawyers, I remember 20 years ago when I was just starting 25 years ago. And you know, I, you know, you know, you kind of talk about ’em like Yeah. They don’t really have it anymore. And it’s not that they don’t have it, it’s just that they haven’t changed a l you know, you can still go to their, their offices. You see the old computers from 20 years ago, the

Matthew Brickman (37:41):
Old what on the wall is still there.

Tad A. Nelson (37:42):
Exactly. You know, hey re you know, change things up every now and then move into the, you know, move into right now. Hey, I’m sorry. There’s better, there’s better software, you know, to maintain your, your clients. You know, you don’t, you don’t, you know, you don’t have to be using Word perfect anymore. You know, there’s Microsoft

Matthew Brickman (38:02):
Word.

Tad A. Nelson (38:02):
You

Matthew Brickman (38:02):
Know, I have attorneys that still use Word Perfect. They said to me, I’m like, I can’t open this

Tad A. Nelson (38:08):
<laugh>. Right.

Matthew Brickman (38:09):
Or Tad or Tad. I actually have attorneys that will not spend the $59 a month to have the software to run child support and alimony and equitable distribution. They will pay me as a mediator. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. They will pay me to run their numbers. And I’m like, I’ll run three of your numbers and pay for my software all month long. Like, come on, just get the software. Yeah. Yeah. Like you’re saying, they won’t, they won’t

Tad A. Nelson (38:38):
Do that. And that’s what’s so bad about ’em. It’s not that they’re, they, they’re lo they’re losing their skill. It’s just everything around their skill is old. So then they, they just look like they’re not with it anymore. And, you know, I kind of just started realizing that and, you know, came back from the seminar, immediately started changing some of the softwares ramped, you know, ramped it up. Okay. And really kind of, uh, you know, a a a come to Jesus with myself in the mirror and like Right. You know, I don’t know what else I would do. I, you know, this is kind of fun. So, you know, I’m, I’ve laid it out and, you know, rather than, you know, at 60, you gotta start thinking about what, what your end game is. Sure. And, and to be honest, my end game is 75.

Tad A. Nelson (39:18):
I got no desire to leave this. And if I can go further than that. Yeah. And, you know, as long as I have young people around me doing, you know, as I get a little older, you know, I’m in that sweet spot right now where, you know, 55, you got all this, you know, from 55 to 65, you’ve got all this knowledge and you got all this experience, but you are starting to, to lose it a little bit. And I, I don’t want, I don’t wanna be at the forefront, you know, where I’m not as quick and I can’t respond and can’t cross examinee a cop as well. Sure. Obviously I’d want to hand it off to the youngsters at that time, but I, I’m still in a good place and, you know, let’s just say I’m not quite as great. I can still be around the office and do it. Sure. So, you know, you just have to stay and, you know, you know, as well as I do, when we stay around doing things, it, it, it, it stimulates your mind anyway. Sure. You know, you don’t, you don’t

Matthew Brickman (40:07):
Use it, you lose

Tad A. Nelson (40:07):
It. Exactly. You don’t have the fall off, you know, so as long as you’re energetic, enjoying the situation, mixing it up keeps you young, you know, I, like I said, I don’t know what else I would do.

Matthew Brickman (40:18):
Alright. So I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you what you can do <laugh>. Okay. Alright. So

If you have a comment or question regarding anything that we discuss, email us at info@ichatmediation.com that’s info@ichatmediation.com and stay tuned to hear your shout out and have your question answered here on the show.

For more information about my services or to schedule your mediation with me, either in person or using my iChatMediation Virtual Platform built by Cisco Communications. Visit me online at www.iMediateInc.com. Call me at 561-262-9121, Toll-Free at 877-822-1479 or email me at MBrickman@iChatMediation.com.

Matthew Brickman:
Occasionally Sydney and I will be releasing Q&A bonus episodes where we’ll answer your questions and give you a personal shoutout.

Sydney Mitchell:
If you have a comment or question regarding anything that we discuss, email us at info@ichatmediation.com that’s info@ichatmediation.com and stay tuned to hear your shout out and have your question answered here on the show.

Matthew Brickman:

For more information about my services or to schedule your mediation with me, either in person or using my iChatMediation Virtual Platform built by Cisco Communications. Visit me online at www.iMediateInc.com. Call me at 561-262-9121, Toll-Free at 877-822-1479 or email me at MBrickman@iChatMediation.com.