Conversation With Rebecca Palmer Esq. On Law Changes in Parenting, Paternity and Timesharing

Sydney Mitchell:

Hi. My name is Sydney Mitchell.

Matthew Brickman:

Hi, I’m Matthew Brickman, Florida Supreme court mediator. Welcome to the Mediate This! Podcast where we discuss everything mediation and conflict resolution.

 

Matthew Brickman (00:16):
I am joined here today with Rebecca Palmer. Rebecca, uh, welcome back to the show. So let’s, let’s, let’s talk about parenting. ’cause we’ve had some major changes in the state of Florida when it comes to parenting, um, in 2023,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (00:33):
Which I disagree with, but Yes. Um,

Matthew Brickman (00:37):
Okay. So share, before, before I ask my question, share your thoughts on the, on, on the changes. So, well, okay. Which, which, what do you disagree with? Because there were multiple changes. I mean, there was changes in paternity, there was changes in, in time sharing. There were changes like, you know, there was, um, a number of changes. So which part do you do you disagree with? And then we’ll talk about that

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (01:03):
As a parent, as a lawyer,

Matthew Brickman (01:06):
Right.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (01:08):
For 30 years. Um, they’ve made it cookie cutter presumptions, and it’s not, I mean, every situation’s different. Right. And I think the judges have to remain open-minded. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman (01:30):
Well, so, alright, so for, for those people that don’t know, we’re talking about there in Florida now, there is a rebuttable presumption of 50 50. So that’s a starting place now. I remember Rebecca back, I think it was in 2016 when the alimony reform and the timesharing got vetoed, I think it was by Rick Scott. And at that time they were trying to do a premise, not a presumption, and it’s just semantics, but it has a major difference between a premise and a presumption. Do you remember that?

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (02:06):
A hundred percent. And they also made it retroactive and

Matthew Brickman (02:09):
Well, for the child support, I mean for alimony. Yes.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (02:12):
It was so stupid.

Matthew Brickman (02:13):
Yeah. So,

Matthew Brickman (02:15):
So one of the things, I mean, one of the things that I thought, at least with the way they did it now, and I also appreciated, you know, we had, we had talked about, you know, both of us being at the annual Marital and Family Law Review course, and something that they, something that they talked to us about, which I thought was really good in the parenting part, uh, being that majority of the time I’m dealing with parenting issues as a mediator. Um, so, um, you know, now having a presumption, um, you know, okay, so, you know, it’s a rebuttable presumption, but if you want to get around it, well then we’ve got the 20 factors in the statute that takes, and they had mentioned this, I think it was one of the judges who was doing the course, had mentioned, you know, lawyers don’t just get lazy and just be like, oh, okay, it’s 50 50. No, we’ve got 20 factors. Judges make your specific findings. And that’s where it’s customizable opposed to, I remember when there was a premise, like when it was a premise, like, no, that, that is it, but a presumption, well, we’ll start here and then we will see. But I think that, um, and I actually had, um, I actually had a, a paternity action where the judge actually made all 20 written findings and the, um, and the mother sent it to me. Absolutely. The mother sent me that the judge

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (03:34):
Will.

Matthew Brickman (03:34):
Um, and, and so this judge actually did what she was supposed to do, going, is there a rebuttable presumption? And she went through all 20 factors in the statute and, and found that, no, it’s not going to happen. Well, the father then filed an appeal. Um, but she went through each factor. And even, I remember in the, in the course we just attended, where they said, look, even if it’s not applicable, put, we have reviewed it. And there are no specific findings as it is not applicable. Like, you know, a child’s preference. Well, the child is four, they like to eat, Play-Doh. No, we’re <laugh>, you know, we’re not letting them choose where they’re living. They’re still eating Play-Doh and, and licking glue. But, you know, and so it leaves it up. But, you know, either lazy lawyering or lazy, you know, a lazy judiciary, I think Can they make it cookie cut?

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (04:33):
I’m really, I really, really appreciate you saying this. It’s giving me hope.

Matthew Brickman (04:39):
Yeah, I mean, and, and, and look,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (04:42):
I really appreciate you emphasizing this ’cause, um, for years and years and years now, judges have been 50 50. Why not? Yeah. And I’m just like, uh, lots of reasons. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman (04:54):
So,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (04:55):
So I really like that. Here’s, I really like what you’re saying, Rebecca. I think, I think we as lawyers need to examine, you said there’s 2020

Matthew Brickman (05:05):
Factors.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (05:08):
We gotta examine those 20 factors because I thank God, knock on wood. Do I have wood? Okay. So, you know, knock on wood, my husband and I are still married and we’re raising two children. And I, I jokingly say, not jokingly, but I say to my clients, I was a good lawyer when I was single. I was better once I was married. I was even better once I had kids. Yeah. I haven’t gone the divorce route, you know, but you learn. And, and, and, and now I actually say I’m better ’cause I’m a parent of adult children. Yeah. But that’s a whole nother ball game.

Matthew Brickman (05:51):
Each stage gives you a different perspective.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (05:53):
Correct. Correct. Yeah. And, um, if I went into politics, which I have no desire, but if I did, I would definitely argue that you should not co cut off kids at age 18 or college for support. That’s when the big bucks come. Yeah.

Matthew Brickman (06:15):
So, you know, so this is interesting. Um, two things. First, I’ll talk about the sport, then I’ll talk about what happened in July. I’ll give you some more hope. Um, <laugh> I’ll, I’ll give you attorneys, judiciary, general, public, more hope. So what’s interesting, I did a Canadian divorce many, many years ago, and they actually used the word magical in their, uh, in their statute or, or whatnot. And it actually said, just because a child born of the parties turns a magical age does not alleviate them of financial responsibility. And so child support goes, I love this child. Support goes until that child is fully self-supporting exactly what you are talking about. And I was like, magical. I mean, and I was like that the judiciary would even, like, somebody was having a good time putting that in a statute. And then somebody, whoever signed that in a law going, yeah, we’re gonna put that word magical. That’s in Canada. I, yeah, it was in ca it was, yeah, it was, it was a Canadian divorce. I think it was. It was, was it Toronto or was it Ontario? That’s fascinating. One of the two because

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (07:18):
Of Florida. Just cut off at 18. Yeah. Graduated from high

Matthew Brickman (07:21):
School. Yeah. So, alright, so this is interesting. The law changed. So the governor signed, I mean, he waited until the last day, you know, June, was it June 30th, and signed that thing at 5:00 PM for, um, or whatnot. Or May when, whenever it was. I remember we waited till the last, and then it went into effect July one. So as a mediator, I thought, okay, now just, just like you said, the judiciary for the most part since 2011 was going Yeah, you know, 50 50. Yeah. 50 50. Um, but it wasn’t the law. So there were pockets around Florida where it was old school. They’re like no tender years doctrine. There was other places where they’re like, no, it’s just a cookie cutter 50 50. And it was just all over the place. Well, okay then fine agree. So the governor signs the bill becomes 50 50 rebuttable presumption.

Matthew Brickman (08:12):
And so as a mediator, I thought life is gonna get easier. We are no longer going to be arguing are we? Or are we not doing 50 50 times sharing? We are simply gonna be talking about which 50 50 are we doing, which one? That’s it. Well, boy was I up for a, uh, eyeopening shock come July. So in July I told you, you know, I had a busy last quarter, right? So in July it was my second busiest month by one mediation, there were 31 days. In July, I had 24 mediations. And 31 days I thought that we were gonna be like, okay, great, we have 50 50. So which one? Oh no, 10 of those impasse. And they said, I don’t care that there is a rebuttable presumption of 50 50, I will argue the factors interesting. And they said no, they said no. And it has continued that way. I have not had a month where it was like, okay, great. I’ve had a few people that have said, oh, it’s a rebuttable presumption. Okay?

Matthew Brickman (09:30):
So many of ’em have, have said no. And, and, and, and when this law changed, I did a podcast about the changes and about the rebuttable. I think I may have even gone through the 20 factors. Um, and, and, and went through those. And people are listening. People are paying attention. Now, they may have a handful of them, maybe not all of them, but look, the judiciary has to go through just like they told us at the conference, you have to make a finding. It doesn’t mean, oh, well, we didn’t find it. Therefore, okay, it’s 50 50. No. Now granted, they have to make specific written findings. So for the people that are listening, get your facts come in with your proof and your evidence, not just your theories and what you know, it’s what what you can prove. But people are not just rolling over the people. Now, while the attorneys might be saying, but look, there’s a rebuttable presumption of 50 50, what do you want me to do? And they’re going argue the law.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (10:27):
But Matthew, like, people have to pay tens of thousands of dollars. <laugh>.

Matthew Brickman (10:32):
Oh yeah. Well, yeah. I mean,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (10:34):
To argue that

Matthew Brickman (10:35):
You gotta pay to play you,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (10:37):
It, it’s like, it’s like the cash 22. Yeah. It’s like, you know,

Matthew Brickman (10:43):
Yeah, a lot of times though, Rebecca, a lot of times. And, and so what I do as a mediator, I actually have, I have a folder on, on, on my computer called 2023 Changes in the Law. And in there I’ve got, um, all, all of the changes, alimony, Grayson’s law, uh, what the governor did start using

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (11:01):
As a mediator.

Matthew Brickman (11:02):
Um, you know, um, I’ve got, you know, uh, Potter versus Potter, which, you know, helped change. Um, we’ve got the paternity changes for the guardianship, uh, the tax effecting retirement values, you know, all the different things that happen depending on, okay, what are we arguing about? Okay, let’s look at the changes. And so I keep the 20 factors there. And so many of times we’ll pull ’em up and go, okay, what do you have? You know, because I’m, I’m, I wanna know, like, okay, is it, so a lot of times it’s morality, it’s, you know, well, they’re mean, they yell, they’re angry. Well, okay, do you have convictions? Do you have arrests? Do you have, you know, do you actually have things? Well, no, they’re just, you know, they were a, they were a horrible spouse, is usually what it is. Therefore translates into, well, they could potentially be a bad parent, or I get a lot where, you know, I’m sure like I did, and I’m sure you do when you’re married, that we have our roles that we assign ourselves and each other of who’s going to work, who’s paying this, who’s picking up the kids, who’s feeding them, who’s bathing?

Matthew Brickman (12:08):
Like we have our roles. That’s the beauty is of a relationship, is we can assign our own roles, but then when they’re, they’re getting divorced, they’re going, well, they never did anything while we were married. I did it all. But those were the roles. Like, okay, well, okay, you didn’t work well, you’re gonna have to work. Uh, I’ve had a lot, I’ll tell you Rebecca, I’ve had a lot of, a lot of gender reversals, a lot of great powerhouse women out there working and stay at home dads. And the dads are like, oh, I, no, I mean, I, I had a guy teaches, he teaches TaeKwonDo once a week, has a, has a couple private students other than that he gets an allowance from his wife and she said, you need to go get a job. He said, I’d rather, I’d rather just get an allowance. He goes, you know what? Reduce the allowance. I’ll still stay home. He didn’t wanna go get a job and now he’s getting divorced. So like, yes, you are. Like, how do you expect to get it? Um, so co-parenting issues, so, okay. Yeah.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (13:06):
So, um, I wrote about that too. But before we go there, I have two things to say. Okay. I love your background. Okay. It’s like a scary foggy bridge to the other side. <laugh>.

Matthew Brickman (13:21):
It’s,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (13:21):
Is that what that is?

Matthew Brickman (13:21):
It’s a giant canvas. I saw this. Yeah, it’s, it’s a road bridge. It sort of looks like, I’ll, I’ll describe it. It sort of looks, it reminds me of like Thailand, possibly, uh, with a jungle, but it’s all foggy. There’s a wooden rope bridge. And I saw this once in a magazine. It was like, ah, I love it. It just spoke to me. And um, and then I happened to be in Ikea and they had a giant canvas of it. And I’m like, I’m buying it. My wife is like, where are you gonna put that? Well, the only blank space we had for a canvas this big at the time was in our bedroom over our bed. So it hung there for five years until we moved <laugh>. And when we moved, my wife goes, that is not going in our bedroom. And I’m like, well, where do I put it?

Matthew Brickman (14:04):
She goes, how about your office? I’m like, that’s a great idea. And so now also, you know, for, for me as a mediator, the, you know, when, when I look at this, it’s like, look, just like you, you know, I was single. I got married. Unfortunately for me, I got divorced. And so, and then I had high litigation with my ex and then dealing with adult children and all that fun stuff. Um, and so for me, I’m like, okay, this is a path that I’ve walked. Now I’m sort of like a tour guide. Like I’ve gone through it, I’ve lived through it, I’ve survived through it, and now I’m helping others, you know, navigate it. And so this is sort of like, you know, there’s this, to me it represents like this sort of murkiness unknown, going into some sort of a future on this rickety unsure bridge.

Matthew Brickman (14:52):
And I’m sort of scared and I’m like, I’m here with you. I’m not following them, but I’m not leading them. I’m gonna come alongside them, join arms, and we’re gonna go down this path path together. And then like, what’s on the other side of the trees? Well, so I use my imagination and I’m like, okay, on the other side of the trees, we’ve got just a row of trees and we’ve got this dirt road. And as far as the eye can see, it looks like there’s holes everywhere. And I’ve walked this road so I know what holes you may need to jump in to avoid things. And I know what pits you need to stay out of. And so I’m just a tour guide helping them navigate as we’re setting up parenting plans, as we’re dividing up assets and liabilities, discussing child support and alimony, going, here’s all the different variations.

Matthew Brickman (15:42):
Um, but it, you know, the reason Rebecca, I sit here on my computer with all of the laws, the changes and statutes is, you know, as a mediator, I can’t give le legal advice. But I, you know, again, I’m not gonna push, I’m not gonna pull. Let’s look at it together. Let’s just see what’s there. Let’s see what your options are. And you are in, you are in control. So I’m there to empower them and, and, and even in power to the point where, okay, well, you know, I don’t want the attorney to be alienated and the client to lose trust in their attorney, but let’s all look at it together. And then let’s talk about options. You know, do you have enough legal ar argument? Do you have what is necessary to rebut this? How much is it gonna cost? How long is it gonna take? Is it possible? And so we’re gonna explore this together because to me, I agree with you, it’s not cookie cutter. It’s not every kid should have 50 50, uh, no, maybe not. We need to look at this individual family. And that’s what mediation is there for, is to customize an agreement for that individual family. Not just, okay. And you get 50 50, I mean, this is not Oprah handing out cars. Right? <laugh>. And it, and it shouldn’t be.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (16:59):
So psychologically we go back to, you know, covid conversation. Yeah. I think our backgrounds are similar to that. So you have this cool, like murky bridge thing, and I always have flowers. Flowers always.

Matthew Brickman (17:20):
Okay.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (17:21):
And, um, on at least one occasion, my flowers were not thriving. And I had a judge say to me, Rebecca, your orchid, I need some attention, <laugh>. And it was the funniest thing. I’m like, okay, I’m just, you know, trying to have a nice background back there. And, and the judge recognized that my orchids were Wow. Fading

Matthew Brickman (17:52):
<laugh>. Yep. They were needing some help.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (17:55):
Isn’t that interesting?

Matthew Brickman (17:56):
That is interesting.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (17:57):
So it’s, you know, is interesting. You know, it’s like, you know, so our, even our backgrounds and, and how we discuss things. I had a judge, female judge in Orange County say that she was so glad the trial was via, you know, what do we call this

Matthew Brickman (18:17):
Virtual blood next? It was virtual. It

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (18:20):
Was virtual, yeah. And she’s like, ’cause I could tell who was lying and who wasn’t telling. She said, I, I normally have to look at the back of people’s head. Right. Isn’t

Matthew Brickman (18:28):
That interesting? Yeah. But she can actually see their face. Correct. That’s awesome. Yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess, I guess the judge wouldn’t see that. Like you would when you’re asking ’em question, but the judge doesn’t get to see the body language like that. I

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (18:40):
Didn’t see that. Oh, that’s great. And that interesting. And, and, and she said in her final ruling, which luckily wasn’t our favorite, my client’s favorite was she said, I knew who was telling the truth. <laugh>. Wow. And because I could see them. Yeah. And I was like, that’s fascinating. I I just think, I think for years we can study all this stuff. Oh yeah. You know, why did you choose that background? Why did I choose flowers? Why did you know this stuff is seems minor. It is not. It’s huge.

Matthew Brickman (19:16):
Yeah. Yeah. So, so speaking of backgrounds, I’m gonna ask you about co we’re gonna go back to co-parenting issues. So speaking of backgrounds real quick. So the first website I ever had as a mediator, I, I built myself. Now I am not a web designer, but I know how to play. I, I can, I can read code. I can’t write it, which is very weird. Uh, so, so I built a, i I built a website. Long story short, the colors were wrong. I thought they were awesome because it really popped out. They were vivid. You could see ’em. I thought it was great. Um, it was a black background with red letters and red dropdown and and whatnot. I was like, I was like, this is cool. This is really nice. And so when I was told Matthew, you need to talk to my web designer.

Matthew Brickman (20:00):
So I, um, so I, I looked at, I called him and he looked at the website. He goes, what do you do? So I explained it to him. He goes, your colors are all wrong. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no. Rio. Rio. Look, look it’s black and look at pops and it looks cool. Look at all the eye candy. He goes, Matthew, for what you do wrong, colors, death and blood. And I’m like, oh God. And I’m like, oh my gosh, you are right. Never even put the two. I’m thinking, I need it to pop vividly to see and read and engage. Not thinking. He goes, this is, he goes, you are doing mediation. You’re supposed to come in here soothing and calming and your website screams death and blood for a divorce. I’m going, oh geez. Wow. I’m like, what do I need? He goes, soothing color colors like blues, grays, whites. Like you are a neutral. You’re in between. I’m like, okay. So he built my site. I’ve had ’em for 15, 16 years. He’s awesome. Um, but ever since that, I’ve never forgot. So talking about colors. Yeah. My, my website, death and blood had no idea. <laugh>. I just thought it was cool ’cause the letters popped off the page. Yeah. Like psycho. So, alright. Co-parenting. I

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (21:18):
Gotta go look at my website now.

Matthew Brickman (21:19):
Yeah. So co-parenting. So we were talking about then, you know, the changes in the laws and what, you know, what the judiciary needs to be doing, the clients, everything. So what advice do you have for spouses that are trying to balance the co-parenting responsibilities? Whether it’s equal or even if it’s not equal,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (21:42):
Number one.

Matthew Brickman (21:43):
Okay.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (21:47):
Whatever’s going on with you two. It’s not about your kids. Number one. Number two, what would you want as a kid? You know, what would you want? Do you care if you’re driving mom’s car, dad’s car? Do you want your dog to come back and forth with you? You know, what would you want?

Matthew Brickman (22:15):
Right?

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (22:17):
Number three, holidays make them cohesive as possible. It’s, it’s not a competition. <laugh>. Yeah. You know, it’s, I love holidays. Number four. Who are you proving yourself to? These little itty bitty guys who trying to become somebody for yourself. Right? <laugh> number five. It, as I said earlier, it does not end at 18. You got it. You got it. Just, this is a long, long, long, long, long, long. Right. You guys are gonna be hopefully there at the wedding together of your children. You’re gonna, you know, help ’em through everything in life and college and college graduation. Don’t think of raising a child as 18. Think of a child as a lifetime achievement. That’s what I get.

Matthew Brickman (23:40):
So

Matthew Brickman (23:42):
Obviously depending on how they, they do that, that is absolutely going to affect a child’s emotional wellbeing. Correct? Correct. Yeah. I mean, there’s no way it’s not, I mean we, you know, um, a lot of times Rebecca, when when people get emotional, when they don’t do the five things you just outlined, okay, <laugh>, when they’re, when they’re in mediation and they’re not doing this, and this might even be good to use even before mediation as you’re consulting with, with somebody. But when, when, when everybody is just emotional and it’s just like the communication is just about over, like, everyone’s ready to just say, okay, impasse, let a judge figure it out. And I’m going, you really think that your ability to co-parent is gonna get better after a third party dictates to you how you’re gonna pay a parent? No, you are fooling yourself. Like you need to have a hand in this.

Matthew Brickman (24:38):
But I ask them this. I said, let me, lemme just ask everybody a question. You’ve got grandparents, right? They’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, and they had your parents, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I’m sure that your parents are a lot like your grandparents with good and bad flaw. Right? Right, right. That’s good, good, good and bad flaws. And they’re like, yeah. And I said, and so you guys naturally had parents, right? Yeah. Yeah. And you are probably, you probably got traits, you know, just like your mom or your dad and you probably also got some traits like your mom and dad that you wish you didn’t have, right? And they’re like, yeah. I said, do not think that your children are not watching you. I said, they are watching everything that the two of you are doing. And usually at that point, Rebecca, it gets quiet.

Matthew Brickman (25:30):
And then I say, of course. And then I say, okay, contemplative. Yeah, I said, I said, if your grandparents, and this can go on generally, but we’re just gonna start with your grandparents. If your grandparents had your parents and your parents don’t like your grandparents and your parents had you, and then now you’ve got your kids. Do you understand? Actually you don’t. Let me tell you what my perspective is. Your mediator, this mediation has nothing to do with you. Usually they look at me like what? I said, this has nothing to do with you. If all of that that I just described is true, what we’re doing is we are not tearing apart this family. We are restructuring this family because we still have future people coming along. We are setting a new tone for your unborn grandchildren. Agreed. And Rebecca, at that point, usually one, if not both of them start to tear up and agreed. And it gets a perspective on this going, you understand what you’re doing to your kid, your selfishness, your motives. I don’t want to drive, I don’t wanna leave my zip code. I don’t want to talk with them. Like

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (26:43):
I,

Matthew Brickman (26:44):
Your kids are watching, they’re paying attention. This is affecting them. You want a lifetime of therapy. And then I tell ’em this, I said, I said, now I will guarantee you guarantee you 99.99% hand to a hundred. But I’ll guarantee you that your children, before they were born little souls up in heaven, didn’t go up to God Almighty and said, I want those two as my parents because I want to go through this <laugh>.

Matthew Brickman (27:16):
I said, I highly doubt they handpicked the two of you and all of this chaos. And said, that’s what I want for my life. No, they’re a product of our decisions. We need to make better decisions. And that seems to usually get people refocused because they do, like you said, they forget those top five that you just went through and it’s all about them. Their hurt, their pain, their anger, their resentment, their abandonment, their feelings. And then, and then they’re just, they’re reactive. They’re not responding. They’re reacting to the other person. And the children are sitting there. They’re the collateral damage for a lifetime.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (28:03):
Amen.

Matthew Brickman (28:04):
And you know, I would like, you know, so going back to statistics, I had actually read recently, so I’m in Martin County now, used to be in Palm Beach County. Palm Beach County has a 65% divorce rate where the country is 50. Palm Beach County is 65% of first time marriages end in divorce.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (28:24):
Money, money,

Matthew Brickman (28:25):
Money, money. I know. I mean, so, you know, the other thing that’s interesting is, is I’m, you said the most important decision you can make is who you’re gonna marry. Right? So, so one of the things that I had said to my daughter before she got married, and I say to my son, ’cause he’s not married yet. I said, look, if you know that 50% or one out of two marriages, and

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (28:50):
And by the way, I recognize that’s a lot of pressure.

Matthew Brickman (28:53):
Yeah, no, I know. But I said, I said, look, if you know, we know that’s just how it’s, you know, that one outta two marriages can end in divorce. How about this? You are gonna go to Orlando International, Palm Beach International, you’re gonna look at all the planes. You’re gonna go one outta two, we’re gonna fall out of the sky. Are you gonna rush and get on that plane? Do you care who the pilot is? Are you paying attention? Like you’re just gonna get on a plane when you know one outta two are just gonna fall outta the sky? No. You, you better do your research. You better be prepared. Not just, Hey, I’m gonna, I’m just gonna get on the plane. If one outta two fell outta the sky, that’s the divorce rate. I said, you don’t rush into this. And so my daughter and her husband, um, I actually did most of their premarital counseling.

Matthew Brickman (29:45):
Um, I said, look guys, I wanna meet with, I know the pitfalls. Like, like, like I said, this bridge, I, I’ve been there, I’ve done it, I’ve gone through it. I, and plus I help people every day. I know the pitfalls. And so I went through and did, um, I don’t even know how many weeks. And I mean they had so many assignments and books and journaling and I mean, Rebecca, they had no idea. I’m like, do you know what rent, I mean, we even went through this, okay, do you, do you know how much electric is water, food? You know, rent? Do you know what these bills and expenses? Okay, what do you guys make? Okay, where do you plan on living? How do you plan on doing

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (30:21):
This <laugh>?

Matthew Brickman (30:22):
Like, you know, this is take off the rose-colored glasses. Let’s, let’s just look at reality. And this is not, Hey, I don’t want you to marry this guy. I love my son-in-Law. He’s amazing. I mean, I love this kid so much, but I am like, you guys, there’s a reality component to this, you know? And I said, I don’t ever want a phone call from the two of you ever, ever, your entire life, ever. And I’ll do anything and everything I can do to preventative maintenance. Um, but, you know, I mean, and, and my daughter, my daughter, oh my gosh, my daughter, my daughter actually said to me, Rebecca, she said, dad, well I’m going

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (30:59):
See

Matthew Brickman (30:59):
Pro. Yeah. She said, dad, I’m gonna be a chain breaker. Divorce stops with you. I’m like, wow. You know, so proactive, constantly in the forefront. Not an afterthought of her head.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (31:10):
Matthew, I got something cool. Okay. So this morning, I don’t know if you know this, no reason you should, the Olympic trials are running

Matthew Brickman (31:23):
Okay.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (31:25):
Occurred in Orlando.

Matthew Brickman (31:26):
Did not know that.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (31:28):
So my son, my husband and I went and watched and we’re watching these runners. I mean, there are times where insane, you know, I’m a runner. My husband’s a runner. My kids are runners. You know, my dad was a runner, you know, they were just nothing like I’ve ever seen. And they’re running and all of a sudden, so the men go first, that’s always a thing. And then the women go second. ’cause the men are a little faster than the scales. And at the end of the woman’s run was a pregnant lady. And, and, and Matthew, I’m telling you, these are the lead of the elitist runners. Yeah. I mean, they are like, you know, I mean they are, I mean, please look it up. It it, it was like the elitist. The elitist. And all of a sudden a Prego comes up, <laugh>. And I’m just watching her run pregnant. And I’m thinking to myself, you go, girl. So I feel like I have to tell my son something. I’m like, I worked out with you and you were little and blah, blah, blah. And he is like, you didn’t <laugh>. He’s like, you can’t do this. And I’m like, fair.

Matthew Brickman (33:01):
You were running Olympic trials while, while I was inside of you

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (33:06):
And I, I said, fair. I was working out. I wasn’t doing this. And uh, I just would love to know who that woman was ’cause for her to be pregnant. And

Matthew Brickman (33:19):
That’s pretty amazing.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (33:21):
Running an Olympic trial. Do you know how many people get chosen? Like, do me?

Matthew Brickman (33:28):
Yeah. Let’s finish up with just a couple more questions about co-parenting real quick. Just wanna pick your brain. I wanna pick your brain any misconceptions that people may have of co-parenting that you run into

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (33:40):
A a hundred percent. Um, I, I wanna tell people to pretend you’re the kid, not the parent. <laugh> Yeah. You know, what decisions would, would you hope were made?

Matthew Brickman (33:58):
Yeah.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (34:00):
You know, because co-parenting, it should be cool called Co Child <laugh>. Because if you’re a kid and you’re, you’re watching these parents make these decisions, and I made a lot of right ones and a few wrong ones, you know, raising my kids. Yeah. And, um, what would you want? Yeah. Number one. Number two. Oh God, mom and dad, please shake off your stuff and take care of your kids. Yeah. You know, I know. It’s a lot. I’m still married. I’ve never been divorced and we got issues. Yeah. But,

Matthew Brickman (34:49):
Well, I’ll tell you Rebecca, my, um, after my divorce, the first girlfriend I had after, and, and she, she, she just knew that I was just angry. It was always, I was always angry and whatnot. And she actually said to me something, and it’s been 20 years, never forgotten it. She said, Matthew, until you can get over yourself, you are never gonna be the parent that your children need you to be.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (35:12):
Bingo.

Matthew Brickman (35:12):
That’s what she said. Bingo. And it, it, it has stuck with me ever since going, I need to get over myself, my own issues, my, you know, feelings, whatever, so that I can be the parent that my children need me to be.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (35:29):
Um, exactly.

Matthew Brickman (35:29):
And it’s still that way. I mean, even my kids are 26 and 28 at times. I still like, you know, need to get over whatever I’m going through and just be there for ’em. ’cause they’re always your kids. Always. Always.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (35:43):
Another one. Another Jim. Yep. Is humor.

Matthew Brickman (35:48):
Okay. Talk to me about humor.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (35:52):
What makes you laugh? What makes your kids laugh? Bring that into the home. Yeah. You know, um, laugh <laugh>. Yeah. You know, I, I think that’s important too. And um, ’cause we all have worry and angst and anxiety and Sure. You know, but what makes you laugh? Sure.

Matthew Brickman (36:17):
Yeah.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (36:17):
You know, and, um, I guess my part words are, thank you so much for this opportunity. Uh, gotta use you as a mediator, man. <laugh>, I can keep you on my list. And, um, I think that, uh, anybody who is or may listen to this that needs us, call us. Yeah. You know, we can help.

Matthew Brickman (36:47):
Alright. So four questions in one minute. We’re gonna finish up with Yes. Four questions in one minute. Okay.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (36:54):
Okay.

Matthew Brickman (36:55):
Favorite vacation spot?

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (36:57):
Ooh, can I name four?

Matthew Brickman (36:58):
Okay, fine. Go for it. Top four,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (37:01):
Iceland, Puerto Rico, uh, California and Naples.

Matthew Brickman (37:08):
Naples is in Italy or Naples as in Florida.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (37:10):
Florida.

Matthew Brickman (37:11):
Naples, Florida. Okay. Favorite restaurant in Orlando?

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (37:17):
Prato.

Matthew Brickman (37:18):
Okay. What, what is it?

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (37:20):
It’s on Park Avenue, it’s Italian. Oh, okay. And there’s only three things to get. Okay. Is the Caesar salad? Um, unbelievable Caesar salad. It’s the meatballs. I don’t even like meatballs. Great meatballs. Hot olives.

Matthew Brickman (37:42):
Oh,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (37:43):
Sounds weird, but really

Matthew Brickman (37:44):
Good. No, no, no. That sounds good.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (37:46):
And then, uh, the kids pasta and demand the kids Right. Because with the adult ones they do way too many funky ingredients.

Matthew Brickman (37:56):
Sure. Just strip it down.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (37:58):
Just, I just want the red sauce and the true pasta. Yeah. And then the kids pizza.

Matthew Brickman (38:05):
Okay. Alright.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (38:07):
That’s very specific on that one.

Matthew Brickman (38:08):
Yeah. Yeah. But no, but it’s good. All right. Number three. Most recent book that you’re reading or listening to if you are,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (38:18):
Or writing?

Matthew Brickman (38:19):
What’s that?

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (38:20):
Or writing.

Matthew Brickman (38:22):
No reading or listening to or writing. If you’re writing a book.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (38:27):
So, uh, writing is my favorite right now.

Matthew Brickman (38:30):
Okay.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (38:32):
I’m struggling. I need help. Um, I didn’t know my dad was blind.

Matthew Brickman (38:39):
Oh wow.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (38:40):
That that’s the title.

Matthew Brickman (38:43):
That sounds good. What and what’s it about?

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (38:47):
I didn’t know he was blind <laugh>.

Matthew Brickman (38:49):
Oh really? Okay. Well, I didn’t know if it was like literally figuratively, like, I didn’t know he was blind to life. I know he was visually blind.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (38:57):
That’s the point of the title. <laugh>. Okay. As you don’t know.

Matthew Brickman (38:59):
Yeah. You know, my mind instantly went to what we were talking about with co-parent and everything going. My dad is blind. Um, so

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (39:08):
I didn’t know he was blind.

Matthew Brickman (39:09):
Right, right. That’s, yeah. Alright, last one, last show you binge watched.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (39:18):
Ooh. Um, what’s her name? She was on, um, a funny sitcom and she’s now like a, a drug seller.

Matthew Brickman (39:28):
Is that Griz? Uh, Griselda,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (39:30):
Yes.

Matthew Brickman (39:32):
Griselda. Yeah. Alright, so good. <laugh>, you’re hesitant.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (39:40):
My family all, we watch TV together.

Matthew Brickman (39:42):
Right.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (39:44):
So I, give it a 70%. Okay.

Matthew Brickman (39:48):
Alright, Rebecca, well I appreciate you coming on and sharing your wisdom and insight. It’s always good talking with you.

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (39:55):
Please it, I I’m, I’m just one little human being trying to help.

Matthew Brickman (39:59):
Yeah. Just one family at a time. Right,

Rebecca Palmer Esq. (40:02):
Exactly.

 

Matthew Brickman:
Occasionally Sydney and I will be releasing Q&A bonus episodes where we’ll answer your questions and give you a personal shoutout.

Sydney Mitchell:
If you have a comment or question regarding anything that we discuss, email us at info@ichatmediation.com that’s info@ichatmediation.com and stay tuned to hear your shout out and have your question answered here on the show.

Matthew Brickman:

For more information about my services or to schedule your mediation with me, either in person or using my iChatMediation Virtual Platform built by Cisco Communications. Visit me online at www.iMediateInc.com. Call me at 561-262-9121, Toll-Free at 877-822-1479 or email me at MBrickman@iChatMediation.com.