Matthew Brickman & Tad A. Nelson Talks Retirement Plans from Mediation – There Isn’t One

Mediate This! Podcast:

Hi, my name is Sydney Mitchell. Hi, I’m Matthew Brickman, Florida Supreme court mediator. Welcome to the Mediate This! Podcast where we discuss everything mediation and conflict resolution.

(00:01):
I assume in Florida there are, uh, last count, I think there’s just a little bit over 6,000 plus mediators. Okay. Now, in the entire state, how many millions of people we have here. Right. And I don’t know about taxes, but in Florida, but mediation, statutory, and it’s by judicial order. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. It’s here too. Okay, good. So there you go, Ted. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So when I was 32, that was when I started doing mediation. And that’s, that’s all I do. I mean, look, with, with my numbers, like there’s 151 workday. I did 262 mediations. Like, well, what else do you, people used to ask me, tad, they’re like, what do you do? I’m like, oh, I’m a mediator. What else do you do?

(01:06):
What do you mean? What else do I do? Well, I mean, you can’t possibly make a living being a mediator. Really. Why not? If you can’t, then you’re not doing it right. No, I’m, I’m an accounting major with an MBA background, so I already ran the numbers on you. I, I know you can make a living when you told me those numbers, that’s crazy. Yeah. So, yeah. So I’m like, like, you know, you can make a living. So people through the years have said, just like you, well, so Matthew, you know, you’re getting older and I mean 50 now, but you know, Matthew, like, what are you gonna do when you retire? Retire? I said, when I retire, I’m gonna mediate. That’s what retired judges and lawyers and social workers and teach. That’s what they do. I said, you know what, so fine. I’ve got a 40 year jump on everybody else, but I’m gonna still mediate.

(01:58):
Like, because a lot, you know, a lot of the mediators are that, that, that, that I, that I’ve known and whatnot. They are retired. Like if it’s funny, a couple of the judges in magistrates in my judicial circuit used to be my judge. And like, look, I fought for 12 years with my ex. They had rotation. Right? Right. So I was in front of a number of judges in magistrates in a 12 year period. They’re now all retired. And you know what, they’re in my circle. These, my previous judges and magistrates are in my circle mediating. But I have, I have a jump on ’em. I have a name, I have a career. Like, you know, this is what I do. But a lot of the mediators, um, like, like you go to our mediation conference, there are like, I’m the youngest one there by at least 15 to 20 years.

(02:53):
Wow. Because they’re all retired judges, lawyers, teachers, social workers, therapists. And so what they’re doing is when they retire from the bench or they retire from their practice, they’re like, I still wanna be involved. I just don’t want that day-to-day headache. I don’t want the clients calling me on the weekend going, I got arrested again. Right. And so it’s like, well, what do you do? You know what? I’ll mediate every now and then. I’ll go golf. I’ll hang out with the grandchildren, pick up a mediation here or there, and I’ll still run in the circles. I can still use my brain. I can still be creative. And so, there you go, Ted. So when you’re ready to, when when you’re ready to retire, you mediate. Well, lemme ask you a question. I I, I, yeah, I’m curious about this especially ’cause you, so what percent of your mediation right now is, is Zoom?

(03:44):
Or are you zoom what you percent Really, what was it before Covid. Okay. So, alright, it interesting. So this platform that we’re on, not Zoom. Right? Right. So this this exact platform that you logged into today, this was created by WebEx for mediation. I had to build this in 2009. You did? Yes. So, wow. In, in 2009, I was a new mediator. I was subcontracting for the local courthouse, and I did 112 mediations. In three months I was doing three to four mediations a day. So you had like a two hour limit? Two hours. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Two hour. Well, in, in the courthouse, two hour minimum maximum. Gotcha. So I was due, I did 112. I mean, I was, and I was one of many in only one courthouse in Palm Beach County. And there’s five courthouses in Palm Beach County. So you could just do the numbers.

(04:58):
I mean, busy. Right. And so I came in one day and they’re like, uh, Matthew, thanks, but we don’t need you. I’m like, what do you mean? I’m on this schedule? They’re like, uh, we blew through our budget. We don’t have any money to pay you. They were, they, they got a new director of mediation who came in to get everything caught up and fixed, blew through the annual budget three months. Now she did it. She was able to almost catch it up, but then all of a sudden all the, all the contract mediators were gone. And they were left with just the employees at the courthouse of the a DR, uh, program. And so I remember I was driving home and I’m going, well, now what <laugh>?

(05:47):
Well now what? And so I had the idea of going, now I was, my dad was a computer programmer for Pratt Whitney back in the eighties. So we always had a computer around. I, I never ever remember a time as a child not having a computer, which is very rare these days. Not, but back then, rare. And so we, we were very technologically like, we all, like all me and my siblings, we all knew our way around computers. And I’m like, why don’t I start my own company and go virtual? Why not? And so I got home. And so I’m like, well, I wonder what’s out there now, what was out there, they had three things out there. They had FaceTime, which was brand new from Apple. They had Skype from Microsoft. And there was another little company in Florida called uvu. And so, look, I’ve never ever worked in a corporate environment.

(06:44):
I’ve always been self-employed. And so I was like, you just call the company. There’s not a, well, you call this person who will call this person. No, you just call the company. So I called, I called Apple, I said, Hey, do you have anything where I can, I described to ’em what I did on a virtual, I mean, on a real world. I’m like, look, I need breakout rooms, you know? ’cause I go into a room and then I need to be able to caucus and go into a breakout room and I need all this stuff. And they’re like, no, sorry. We don’t have this. So I called Microsoft. Microsoft was like, Nope, we, we can, we can do three, but we can’t do four or five like you’re needing. So we could do a main room and we can add two people, which was more than Apple could do.

(07:26):
They could do only two way Skype. Could do three uvu. Sorry. We can only do three as well. So I, so I’m like, well, commu. So I, I typed in communication, uh, uh, communication company. Cisco WebEx came up. It was the largest communication company. So I called, I got some young kid engineer on the phone describing to him what I did. And he was fascinated. He’s like, that’s a job. Like people really do that. I’m like, yeah. And so he goes, we don’t have anything like that, but that’d be fun to build. So took about a year and they built this for me. Now, at the time, with the technology, when we went into breakout rooms, there was no video because when you would, to carry video meant they had to open something up technologically, which created what they called a wormhole or a loophole for viruses and hacking and everything else.

(08:29):
So they created the ability to create multiple rooms. But we lost video. When we’d go into a, into a room, I could still screen share and we could talk. We just couldn’t see each other. Right. Tad I was paid $250 a month for my license back in 2009. Wow. And I had it. And so, and so I started then marketing it. And I had a great same guy that does all my marketing. I started marketing it to military personnel. I started marketing it to battered women’s shelters. I started marketing it to, um, to judges and lawyers. Of course, judges and lawyers were like, no, we do this in person, but the battered women’s shelter. Oh, they like that idea because these people were trying, were in hiding from their abuser. Wow. We could still move forward, get ’em divorced or deal with this. And they don’t have to be in a specific general location.

(09:34):
That’s amazing. Military divorces great. You can’t send documents to Guam and serve ’em on a military base. Like that’s not possible. So I was doing virtual mediations here and there. Not that many, but enough that I was doing it. And so when 2020 happened, um, all the attorneys were like scrambling around like, okay, what do we do? What do we do? And I sent out an email blast. Now there’s, to date, I’ve worked with 800 and I think 76 attorneys. And at the time it was like 500 something. And, and I was also doing some out of state stuff. I was doing some pro se out of state as well as then I was doing some with attorneys out of state. Uh, and so when 2020 happened, I sent out an email blast and said, Hey guys, remember I have a platform. And what was great was there was no learning curve.

(10:32):
I knew my platform, I knew how to use it. I knew how to put everyone in virtual rooms. And of course the technology had evolved where I did have cameras, you know, carrying over. And so all of a sudden, as everyone is scrambling to figure out what’s going on, I was already set. The judges knew I was set, the attorneys knew I was set. And so when March, 2020 happened, the transition was really easy. Then of course as time went on, most everything was virtual. But occasionally I would have an in-person. Um, but I have had, since 2020, I think I’ve had five in person and Wow. Last year. Last year. Um, not because every January we have the American Academy of, uh, the American Academy of Matrimonial lawyer, uh, board cert. ’cause I know, I know you’re board certified in criminal mm-hmm <affirmative>. So this is the board certification for family attorneys.

(11:31):
We have the conference in Orlando every year. And so I go to that. It’s great. Updates on all the laws and, you know, case law and everything. And so I was talking with, uh, one of the judges, um, and uh, and, and she was like, Matthew, I see your name come across all the documents. Thank you for, thank you for taking care of these so we don’t have to deal with it. And she asked. She goes, she said, are you doing in person at all? And I said, no. She goes, what’s, what, what’s your settlement rate in person versus virtual? And I said, you know what? I honestly don’t know, but I’ll, I’ve got all my documents on my computer. I’ll let you know tomorrow. So I went back to my hotel room, I looked online and I did all the math. And 10, the 20% increase in settlement virtual rather than in person.

(12:18):
Why do you think that is? Um, a number of reasons. Number one, uh, people are able to move through the system more effective. The longer things hover, then emotions get riled up. You start talking to people, you get frustrated with the system, the delays. By the time you finally get there, I’m. I want my day in court. I’m hurt or whatnot, rather than being able to move through the system much faster. So you’re feeling as though you’re part of the system, not fighting the system. And so yeah. You’re more apt to settle Second, when you’re in the safety, comfort, and convenience of your own home or location, stress isn’t there. The fear is not there. So you’re, it’s easier. You’re more comfortable to focus on what you need to focus on rather than sitting at a table in a room, a sterile room across the table from the person who you’re fighting with, with two attorneys in that setting.

(13:20):
That’s already stressful. I mean, I remember when I mediated, it felt like I was all encased in a room full of jello and you could just cut the tension with a butter knife. Yeah. Um, and so being able to be in your own environment, there is a level of safety where the stress comes down. You’re able to be like, okay, I can just focus. You can take a break. You can drink your own coffee, pee in your own toilet, eat your own food. Also, it’s also less costly. So the client is paying less and the attorney is actually making more. Because in a real world setting, if you were representing me and we had to go to someone’s office, and if they say, Hey, we want to go into caucus, then when the mediator goes into the other room, you and I are sitting there looking at each other and we’re just shooting, shooting the breeze and talking or whatever.

(14:17):
But I’m on the clock. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, and if you, if you were to do anything else, now I’m upset because it’s my time. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So you are limited and I’m paying for it. Right. Right. Rather than, you know what mediator goes in another virtual room. You and I are sitting there and look, you know what, until the mediator come, you know, uh, comes back Tad, you take me off the clock, you’re now able to multitask. You can double bill, triple bill, quadruple bill as you’re doing much more. So you are making more money. I’m paying less money. I mean, like, there’s so many benefits to it. Um, not to mention the one of just time. Time is the one commodity we cannot make more of or get, get back. We’re not wasting time getting dressed, driving to an office, driving to a different location, getting stuck in traffic, the stress of traffic.

(15:14):
Then I’m late. Uh, I mean all of that. Yeah. And so all of those factors create a world where I could be at work, I can be on vacation. I mean, I’ve had mediations. I had a mediation recently with a boat captain who was on, or actually he’s a yacht captain on the yacht in the Mediterranean, appearing online for his divorce. Now, how do you think we’re gonna serve him? Documents we’re not. How do you think he’s gonna sign his divorce papers? We’re not. How do you think he’s gonna get to Florida? Well, he’s gonna have to have a helicopter to get him to land, to then get to an airport, to then fly, to then get a hotel, to get an Uber, to get to a law office in Florida. Really? Really? Yeah. Or just hit a button and you can join virtually. We’ll have a conversation.

(16:11):
We’ll upload your documents. You can sign ’em and you can move on with your life. Plus then on the judicial side of it, the judges, these cases are moving things that used to, were waiting for them. They’re in New York. You’re in Texas with a husband. We, we need him to fly down. Well, he has a part-time job because he’s, he’s sick. And so he doesn’t have the money to do it. So now we’re waiting and we’re waiting. And now the case is a year old. Now you have a, a conference with the judge going, you are, uh, they’re going Tad. Why is this still on my docket? Well, your Honor, we’re still waiting for him to show up. Well, now we need an order. But I don’t have the money. Now. I have extra debt. Plus I have to come now, now I’m actually here.

(16:54):
But I’m. No, the answer’s no. Just because you made me come here. Like, so for the judges, they’re able to move these cases along. Things are not stagnant for the attorneys. They can double, triple, quadruple bill for the client. There’s less expense. It’s a conducive world that the legal, the legal world was like one of the last entities to embrace technology. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Always is medical. Medical. Did it what? Back in 2000 under the Digital Records Act, because they had to mm-hmm <affirmative>. But law didn’t. And what was interesting was in 2000, under the Digital Medical Records Act, when they did that, the, the American Bar Association did just the opposite. They told attorneys, no, you have to actually keep your actual paper files for like 10 years. Yeah. What They went the complete opposite direction. And so they were, so I, I think now here, here’s the problem. Here was the problem with the legal world. The legal world did the same thing that the TSA and the, the transportation world did. So how many terrorists have been stopped by TSA? None. Yeah. None. But you know what? It gives you a good sense of security, okay? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Well then, so, but we traded security for simplicity, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Well, 2020, same exact thing happened with Zoom. You know, who created Zoom? A WebEx engineer.

(18:35):
So I gotta figure out what is, what is your relationship with WebEx? I still haven’t figured that out. None. None, none. Except that they built me this platform, and I’ve had this platform since 2009. So, so, so you’re not, you’re not getting checks from WebEx? No. Oh, oh, you should. Oh, well, okay. So, so Tad, when I got this, they gave me the ability to license my own. They gave me that ability. The problem though, was nobody saw the need for it. And at $250 a month, they were like, no. Now, what’s interesting, Todd, this is what happened in 2020 when everything started to go to Zoom and the world adopted it. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. My $250 a month license dropped to 24 99 a month. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yay. Right? Now, what was interesting was Zoom. Zoom all of a sudden everything was like, oh, zoom. Well, zoom was actually created by a Cisco WebEx engineer who had left a number of years, number of years ago.

(19:42):
And he decided he was gonna create a social media platform just like Skype or like WhatsApp. And so he created Zoom. So that’s why it has all the easy, all the fun little filters and all the backgrounds and everything. Yeah. Because it was built for social media. The problem though was just like transportation, the courts took simplicity over security. So they quickly adopted Zoom. Churches did the same thing. Synagogues, mosques, they’re like, zoom. And you remember when it first happened, how you hear all those stories about the hacking with the porn and everything. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, why do you know where the Zoom servers were located? I have no clue. China. Oh my God. You almost can’t say it with a serious face. Like it’s Zoom, it’s China Coronavirus. Like what? Right. Well, they wonder. And there were no layers of security, because it’s a social media platform, but it’s so easy to get on.

(20:45):
So everybody traded simplicity over security. Well, of course, then Zoom’s going, oh my gosh, we, we need layers of security. So all of a sudden they’re quickly adding layers of security. Well, they also had so many people joining that then they’re like, well, geez, we could actually make money off of it. So they started, we’re gonna charge for it. Because originally, remember there was no charge for Zoom. Right. Because it was a social media platform. It was, it was like, no one’s charging for WhatsApp. It’s a social media. It’s, right. Well, so that’s what happened with Zoom. And since so many people adopted Zoom over, like Google Meet, WebEx, um, what’s the Microsoft teams like? All over all of those. It’s sort of like, you know, like in certain parts of the country where it’s like, I want a Coke. You call all soda Coke.

(21:40):
Right? Right. So we do down here. Yeah. Well, and and guess what? That’s what now everybody does with a virtual meeting. Yeah. Uh, you wanna have a Zoom meeting. It is like, Hey, do you want a Coke? Yeah. Hey, you want a Zoom meeting? Yeah. What platform? And so Zoom just became like the word. Um, but, but yeah. So I’ve actually been doing virtual mediation since oh nine, but a hundred percent. So I think it was 2021. It went 100%. Wow. No, in person at all. Um, there are a few judges in Palm Beach County, which are ordering certain mediations in person. I’ve got such a booked calendar. I’ve just told people, no, get a different mediator. We really want you. Well, then you’re gonna do it virtual, or it’s not happening. Well, the judge ordered it. Well, tell the judge. And I’ve actually said, tell the judge I’m not doing it in person if they, if they ordered me.

(22:39):
’cause they’ve actually ordered me. Right. I get ordered from the bench going, we’re ordering that. You go to Matthew or you’re not going to be in person. ’cause I’m not doing it in person. Love it. And so everything is virtual. So what percent does Zoom have of the market? I don’t know. Oh, yeah. I don’t know. Yeah. I mean, that’s crazy how that your story of how they, how they kind of took over. That’s, I didn’t realize they were social media. Yeah. Oh, originally. Yeah. Yeah. Or Yeah, it makes sense with all the little gadgets they have. You’re right. Yeah. Well, and you know what’s funny is I’ve had it a hundred percent female attorneys have come onto this platform and gone, where’s the makeup, the lips, the eyebrows? Like, where’s the, and I’m like, and, and I, and I tell ’em, and now I haven’t used Zoom, you know?

(23:29):
Um, except for I think maybe one or two times. But I’m like, but you know, I don’t use the backgrounds or anything, or the filters. And I’m like, this isn’t Zoom. This is a professional platform, not a social media platform. Love it. I’ve also had people, Ted, that have said, Matthew, it’s so difficult getting into your platform. Like, you know, I’ve gotta put my full name and my email address and the password. I’m like, yeah, because there’s layers of security. This is a mediation. This is a legal, like, we’re done. This is a legal, secure, private and confidential meeting. What do you mean? Oh, it’s too hard to get in. No, it’s not. Um, but there’s layers of security. I mean, I want layers of security. Yeah. You don’t want layers of security. No. They would rather trade simplicity or security all day long. Yeah.

(24:24):
And well, that’s how mode, like, when we’re talking about the older guys, you know, it’s just, you know, sim they’re set in their ways. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately, you know, one of the unfortunate things, like you, you mentioned you went to one of your conferences. So I go to the conference every single, the, the, the a, uh, the a BA conference every, or the, uh, a A ML conference every year. Uh, ’cause that’s the one for board certification. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and, and that’s where you get all the new case law updates, all the, oh yeah. Remember this. And if you wanna sit for board cer, you better know these things. It’s the best conference. And there’s only like, I think less than two and a half thousand attorneys, mediators, accountants, forensic accountants actually attend. And it’s like, and, and, and you’re not gonna get your old seasoned attorneys that show up there mm-hmm <affirmative>.

(25:19):
And it’s like, and then as a mediator, a lot of times in mediation, they’re gonna say something. And I’m like, let’s look at this. I mean, like, I, I can’t say, no, you’re wrong, but I’m like, let’s look at the statute or mm-hmm <affirmative>. Or like, there’s some, there, there were three brand new case laws that came out in 2024 that they highlighted for us in, in, uh, January when I was there. I’ve already had to pull that out three times in mediation because the attorneys were arguing something. And I’m like, uh, we got new case law on that. And they look at me like, what do you mean? And I, I, I open up the electronic packet that I, ’cause you know, a lot of the attorneys, like the two books of all the mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know, like, I want the paper books. I’m like, give it to me on electronic, especially since I’m all virtual, I can pull open the book and we can look through and look at case law here together.

(26:11):
I could share the screen. And so I open up the case law and they’re like, I didn’t know that. And I’m like, that’s why you can’t be asking for it because you didn’t plead it. Right. And it’s like, but little things like that, like, if this is your craft and this is what you’re doing, spend a little bit of money, go to the conference, get some updates. Even if you don’t go every year, go every, every couple of years. But, um, you know, and, and I guess, I guess just like with you, it’s the difference between those that do and those that actually care. Right. Without a doubt. You know, there’s so many of us. I mean, you, you see ’em every day. I mean, with the amount of mediation you’re doing, people that are just showing up for a check, you know, they, they, they wanna pay their mortgage and send their kid to college.

(26:59):
And that’s, that’s all they care about. You know, you, you know, it’s, it’s, you gotta take pride in it. You know, you gotta take pride in what you do. And you, you know, I always make the analogy to like, you know, it’s just like an NFL quarterback. They may be fighting with the owner about their check, but once they’re under, once they’re under center, it’s about them. That’s a reflection of them. And they, they play for pride, you know? And if it’s true, you know, and that’s, you know, I always make the, I’m, I’m kind of a sports guy, so I always make the analogy at my practice. We’re like the Mike Trout of, of practice, you know, Mike Trout. He hits a one hopper to the pitcher. Unlike most ball players that just tippy toe back to the dugout, he hauls down the baseline.

(27:42):
You know what, you’re here, you’re getting paid. Well do your job. Do do your job, dot your I cross your T’s, you know, sweat a little, roll your sleeves up. There’s nothing wrong with that. You know, it’s, it’s your pride in what you do. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well, and I, you know, I mean, since I ended up doing my, my undergrad all in, in, in law, and, uh, I mean, I, I know how to legally draft an agreement. Most mediators don’t draft. They leave that to the attorneys. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But I’m running the system negotiating, drafting the agreement. I mean, I’m doing all of it so that when I’m done with our mediation, we’re reviewing and signing, and we’re at case closed, we’re done. And once it’s signed, a hundred percent, a hundred percent binding once it’s signed with you. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. I mean, yeah, it’s binding.

(28:32):
The only thing is we just need a judicial order on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you’ve got a legal binding contract. We’ve negotiated all the terms, and you’re done. And there’s, and so I get chosen, and I, ’cause I know this ’cause the attorneys tell me is I get chosen for two reasons. Number one, kid issues. I know kid issues, one, because I lift through it myself for one. So I, I’ve got knowledge plus I’ve done so many things. But number two, I draft because a lot of the attorneys, they, they’re, they’re, they’re not drafting. And so they’re leaving mediation without a draft, maybe a bullet point. And then it all falls apart and they’re still litigating and more depositions, and then they have in hearings and it’s still costing money. And they’re like, look, if we go to, when we go to mediation, all we have to do is talk to our client.

(29:16):
Matthew’s gonna help him negotiate. Matthew’s going to something, you know, draft the agreement. Like, we’re like, I’m doing all the heavy lifting. They’re like, mm-hmm <affirmative>. Let’s go. And he’s going to get it done. Now, like you said, then you’ve got some of those attorneys. And, and I, I’ve actually been told by attorneys that I used to work for that and, and they, and, and they’ve, and I’ve seen ’em. I’m like, Hey, how are you? They’re like, good. They’re like, just wanted to let you know, you know, I’m not using you because I don’t like you. You’re an amazing mediator. And I’m like, well, yeah, I haven’t seen you in a while, but that’s okay. I mean, my calendar’s busy and they still want to talk. And so they just say, well, I’m not using you because you settle things and you know, I want to go to trial.

(30:01):
I need to go to trial. I need to make a living. I’m going, what? Not at this family’s expense. Right? Yeah. That’s criminal. See, that just makes me sick. Well, well, Ted, and I don’t know about you for criminal board cert, but in Florida for family board cert, you have to do so many trials and have trial hours in order to keep your board cert. And so, so, so like, like for example, I had two attorneys. We were almost there finishing the case, and I pulled the attorneys out because they were arguing over a case law. Let me, let me talk to just the attorneys. Not the, not the clients don’t need to hear this. So I pull ’em out, I’m like, guys, we, we, we, we, we, we can finish this. Right? Right, right, right, right. Like, we can get this done. And the one attorney says to the other one, how many hours do you have left for your, uh, board cert for trial?

(31:01):
He’s like, yeah, I got about two, three hours. He’s like, yeah, so do I. He’s like, you wanna try this one issue that’ll give us an And I, I jumped in Ted. I said, no, we are one issue away from this family who has been at this for almost two years, be dragged through the mud. You guys are not gonna play with your board certification on their back. No. That’s crazy. And they said, Matthew, they actually said, they said, Matthew, relax. I, we are just asking the question. I’m like, look, we can settle this. Right. But guess what? One of the attorneys, he won’t use me because I settle his cases and he needs to do his trial. And I’m like, not at a family’s expense. See, and that’s why, that’s why lawyers, we have bad reputations. That kind of right there. It’s so bad.

(31:47):
I’m like, no. So, you know, I mean, I’m advocating for, for the parties going, no, you’re not gonna, you’re, you’re not gonna keep this thing going. Um, so whether or not maybe you have an attorney that’s not up to date, um, or you’ve got him that. Yeah. You know what, I, I have one attorney down in Boca, amazing, amazing, amazing. In his office, tad, he’s got a bookcase and he’s got picture, I mean picture frame after picture frame after picture frame of his, of his little boy. And you can see his little boy through the years. It’s the same picture of his little boy at camp year after year, after year after year. As you look through this. So you can see him get older and older. But he, number one, he’s a great dad. Loves his, loves his family. But number two, he uses that for his clients.

(32:42):
And I loved this. I loved it, I loved it. I loved it. Every time I would mediate with him, because his kid would go away to like this 18 to $20,000 a year sleep away camp every year. Right. And so when his client would get all ingrained and be like, I’m not settling, he would pause and he would say, you see my son here? He was eight years old in this picture when he went to sleepaway camp and see this one, and this is when he was nine and 10 and 11 and 12. He goes, do you know how much I end up having to spend for sleep away camp? I’m spending more than what you’re fighting. I’m spending about $20,000 a year. So here’s the deal. You can either settle this and send your kid to camp, or you cannot, and you can add another photo and you can send my kid to camp.

(33:37):
The choice is yours. I love that, dad. Yeah, that’s good. Is that not good? That’s real good. But he was not the type, and he’s one of the greatest attorneys I’ve worked with. He’s not the type that is going to run the clock, go to trial, waste the money just to get paid. Right. He looks at it going, there’s enough people. This go full circle with our conversation. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. There’s enough people making bad decisions mm-hmm <affirmative>. With mental health Sure. That are out there and their lives are imploding. I don’t need to just circle the wagons on one. There’s a line down the street. Yes. And so, you know what, I’ll do the best job I can with one in front of me, and then I’ll do the next one. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then I’ll do the next one, and then I’ll do the next one. And it’s a never ending line because people are not getting better.

(34:30):
Right? No, you’re a hundred percent right. And ultimately, if you do ’em a good job, they’re gonna go tell six of their friends anyway. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so. Well, Ted, it has been an absolute pleasure talking with you. Uh, yeah, you’re fun, Matthew. You’re a good man. You’re, you’re fun to talk to. I wanna send you an email. I wanna go on one of those seminars. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely contact me. I’ll, they’ve, there’s actually a couple well, we’ll talk off. Yeah, we’ll talk offline. There’s actually a couple universities out there, programs I still have yet to attend that I we’ll talk about. Yeah. We’ll talk about as well. But, uh, thank you so much for being here and, uh, may maybe we’ll have you back. We’ll talk about something else like I’m, amen. There’s always something. It was, it was great. Alright. I look forward to it. Alright, Matthew. Good talking to you. Have a great day.

Matthew Brickman:
Occasionally Sydney and I will be releasing Q&A bonus episodes where we’ll answer your questions and give you a personal shoutout.

Sydney Mitchell:
If you have a comment or question regarding anything that we discuss, email us at info@ichatmediation.com that’s info@ichatmediation.com and stay tuned to hear your shout out and have your question answered here on the show.

Matthew Brickman:

For more information about my services or to schedule your mediation with me, either in person or using my iChatMediation Virtual Platform built by Cisco Communications. Visit me online at www.iMediateInc.com. Call me at 561-262-9121, Toll-Free at 877-822-1479 or email me at MBrickman@iChatMediation.com.