2. Conflict Resolution: The 4 D’s of Every Type of Conflict

Sydney Mitchell:

Hi. My name is Sydney Mitchell.

Matthew Brickman:

Hi, I’m Matthew Brickman, Florida Supreme court mediator. Welcome to the Mediate This! Podcast where we discuss everything mediation and conflict resolution.

Sydney Mitchell:

Well, welcome everybody to season one episode two of mediate this, Matthew you looking forward to this episode?

Matthew Brickman:

I am, I am. It’s going to be really good.

Sydney Mitchell:

Today we’re going to be discussing conflict resolution and in the previous episode, episode one we discussed that you are certified conflict resolution specialist who empowers people who are experiencing fear and chaos to on the contrary find hope and peace for their lives. Through the mediation process, you help people by saving tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and you’re helping them by helping them to create an enforceable agreement that sets a new tone where they can peacefully co-parent, continue to limit conflict in their own lives within their families and create a safe and stable future for themselves and for their kids. And in episode three we’re going to be discussing the perspective through which we even view conflict. But today I want to discuss with you Matthew A. Little bit about the process, the process of conflict resolution. And before we even address how to solve conflict, I think it’s important that we understand where conflict even comes from. What is the root of conflict. So Matthew, after all of your years of experience in mediation, what common thread do you see in the roots of where conflict even comes from?

Matthew Brickman:

So Sydney, you know, regardless if it’s a divorce, regardless if it’s mom and dad fighting over the child and you know, this may blow your mind regardless if it’s in a school setting with teachers, whether it’s with students, whether it’s with a boss or a coworker. I mean, this thread goes throughout your entire life and every aspect in every business. And it comes down to what is known as the four D’s. So there are four things, four, the four D’s that I believe are underlying every type of conflict. So let me, let me give those to you. The first D is when people feel dismissed, when they feel like their opinion doesn’t matter, they don’t matter. Their views don’t matter. And I know that that probably resonates. Like you, I see you sitting there shaking your head, you’re probably like, Oh my gosh, I’ve had this at work. I’ve had this at school, I’ve had this with my family. I’ve had this with my sip.

Sydney Mitchell:

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I can think of so many instances where, you know, you’re disagreeing with somebody, you’re having an extended conversation because you don’t feel understood. You know, like that person isn’t quite making the effort or not that they’re not making the effort, but they’re just not, they’re just not getting you, you know? And so I think that that is just probably, I mean, gosh,

Matthew Brickman:

Sometimes they get you, but they’re dismissing you. They don’t care. Their opinion is more important than yours. You know, they, they are right. So dismissed. That’s your first D dismissed. Your second is disrespected when you, when people feel disrespected, that’s going to lead you into conflict. Absolutely. You know, the third one is when you feel dis valued, like, you know, you have no value. You don’t bring anything to the table, you don’t bring anything to the relationship. You don’t bring anything to the group that you’re in. When you feel disadvantaged, viewed, well that leads to resentment. Resentment can lead to others frustrations that lead to conflict. Right. And your last D is then disenfranchised. Disenfranchised is usually after you feel dismissed or disrespected or just value. Now you’ve checked out, you’ve checked out of the marriage, you’ve checked out of the relationship, you’re now going to go get a new job. You’re just disenfranchised, you’re done. And,

Sydney Mitchell:

And that’d be the 50 is just done.

Matthew Brickman:

Yeah. Yeah. The fifth is done like this

Sydney Mitchell:

Most of the time.

Matthew Brickman:

Right, right. So, so, so to recap, the four D’s, they’re there. They, whether in a relationship, personal, professional, one, or it can be a multitude. It can be two of maybe be their root issue underneath the conflict. So, you know, when, when people come to me and mediation and they’re in conflict, they’re like, wow, you know, he cheated on me. Okay, let’s back up. Let’s unpack this. You know, and usually Sydney, one or four of them, or I’m done. I’m done is now the fifth and we’re where they’re at. One of those, you know, whether they feel dismissed or they’ve, you know, somebody felt disrespected, somebody felt this value, and then they were just disenfranchised with the relationship. I mean, those are your four underlying causes of conflict

Sydney Mitchell:

And they’re not even just causes of conflict. They’re their feelings, their emotions. And I’m sure that it takes, you know, I can speak for myself. It takes me acknowledging that I feel dismissed. It takes me acknowledging that I feel disrespected in order to move forward in the conversation. Right,

Matthew Brickman:

Exactly. Exactly. and you know, you know, in so many, so many times where conflict happens is when one of the two people that are in dispute, whether it’s the mom, the dad, the coworker, the boss, somebody has a different point of view of how the same situation goes down, right? So you just have a different vantage point. And so many times it can be, well, this is how I feel. This is how it went down. And as soon as the other person says, that’s not how it happened, you now feel dismissed. You feel dis valued, you feel disrespected and all of a sudden now you’re in conflict. When the way to move past that is to acknowledge it. Like acknowledgement is the opposite of dismissal. And if they, and if you say, you know what? I hear what you’re saying, I see it from a different point of view.

Matthew Brickman:

Now the conversation can move forward. You haven’t gone into conflict because you’ve acknowledged you don’t feel dismissed and now you’re now comparing notes. You know, that’s a healthy environment where it’s like, well this is how I saw, well this is how I saw. Well really, and you know what you know, they always say there’s, there’s three sides to every story. Yours never heard that. There’s three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth and the truth by, you know, one of the things that I just kinda stay in these a zero is like no your truth. Well, your truth could be wrong depending on your vantage point. I hate that saying like no more truth. Like your truth. Look, I can have my truth and you can have your truth. They were both dead wrong because our vantage point was incorrect to actually

Sydney Mitchell:

Right, but there’s a truth

Matthew Brickman:

But there is a truth and so but, but you know what, we’re going to end up in conflict if we’re battling my truth versus your truth. I mean that’s so you know this environment we live in. Just a side note here, this environment we live in, it’s like no your truth. No. Your truth means let’s create conflict because your truth and my truth may not be the truth in both of them could be dead wrong or I’ll tell you Sydney, so many times in mediation, both parties are a hundred percent correct and I tell them, you know what? You’re a hundred percent correct, both of you and you’re both a hundred percent incorrect. It all depends on your point of view because, because you know they can both be telling the same exact story. And I love and mediation when they tell the same story and I walk out of like I may walk out of one room and go into another room. You’ve been there with me, you know like you, you’ve gone to mediation with it.

Sydney Mitchell:

Fascinating process to watch. Like both sides.

Matthew Brickman:

If you walk out and you’re going, okay, at least we’re on the same page. At least we’re telling the same story, but just a different vantage point. What’s really bad as I walk out of a room and go, okay, is this even the same mediation? Because their, their, their stories are so completely 90 but, but yeah. So, so dismissal, disenfranchisement, feeling disrespected and just valued. Those are, those are your underlying roots of conflict.

Sydney Mitchell:

I’ve got a side question for you. Okay. So you’re in a mediation and let’s say you go to visit each party in a separate room, they’re separated and you’re getting two completely different sides of the story. Like what do you do? Who do you trust? How do you find the, you know, this, this truth is one truth. How do you find that in the midst of such a, an emotionally charged argument?

Matthew Brickman:

So one of the things that I’ve learned as a mediator is trust. No one trust no one because the minute I trust one, and that means that I do not trust the other, I lose my neutrality as a mediator. I’m not there to find the truth. That’s not my job. That’s a judge’s job is to analyze the evidence and then either find the truth or create their own truth. Right? That’s not my job. My job is not to figure out who’s telling me the truth. My job is to empower the parties to take control of their lives, and so as I go back and forth and hear the stories and hear the points of view, what I might do is I may go into a room and say, okay, well did you not say X, Y, and Z? And then I watched their body language and their face and everything and be like, well, yeah, and all of a sudden I’m like, okay. My job is to try to find common threads so that I can help them see each other’s points of view. Because look, if I start believing one or the other, well they’ve already been believing one or the other and now I can actually be caught up in their conflict and I’m there to help them get out, not digging.

Matthew Brickman:

So yeah, so, so you know, there now there are steps, there are steps to resolve conflict.

Sydney Mitchell:

Okay, this is perfect because I, this was the next thing I wanted to ask you. You’re in this situation, or even for listeners who are in their own personal situation life, you know, they’ve sat down with the person, they’ve identified how they’re feeling, you know, maybe it’s dismissed, disrespected, this valued, disenfranchised, done. What? Now? What do you do? What’s the next step?

Matthew Brickman:

Okay, so, so you’re in conflict. So how do you resolve conflict? There’s four steps. So the natural, most normal way that every single person on this planet should be resolving conflict is do it yourself. Do it yourself. You don’t need me. You don’t need a judge and attorney. Just go to the person you’re having conflict with. Put on your big boy pants, your, you know, your big girl dress. Sit down and have a conversation, like try to resolve the conflict yourself. Now it’s easier said than done because usually emotion is driving the conversation, not logic and reason, right? You’re not looking at facts. You’re not, you know, you’re, you know, because you’re coming out of a place of feeling dismissed, disenfranchised as disrespect factor to decide, right? Those are all emotional things, but when a bit, when you try to resolve conflict, you know, the way that I, the way, the best way to explain this to you, Sidney, is I tell people that, you know, we are human beings.

Matthew Brickman:

We are logic and emotional human beings. It is impossible for me to say Sydney turn off your emotions for mediation. Like right? It’s like, okay, don’t be a human being a robot like now. Especially when what got you here? Motions got you here so, so, so I explained it like this. We are, we are like a stove. We have front and back and back burners, right? Your front burners are logic and reason. Your back burners are emotion. We are emotional creatures. Most of our logic and reason is controlled by our emotions. We make decisions based on emotions. So in mediation, it’s not about taking something off the stove that you were no longer, it’s just we need to be front burner thinkers and so we need to, we need to come into mediation. We need to come into any type of a negotiation when we’re resolving conflict.

Matthew Brickman:

Even when we’re like you and me, we’re having conflict. We need to just put our emotions on the back burner. Don’t turn them off. We’re we’re that, that that’s part of who you are. And I am, but we need to become logic and reason. We need to put be front burner thinkers. So in step one we are, we are coming to each other. We are having logical and reasonable conversations. This is the least expensive way to resolve conflict. It doesn’t cause your eye a dime to have a conversation, right? I mean, unless I’m going to take you to dinner and then we’re going to have conversation, okay, now either we’re splitting the bill, I’m paying for it, or we’re gone and you know, we’re going to be progressive and you’re going to pay for it.

Sydney Mitchell:

Well now you can pay.

Matthew Brickman:

Okay. All right. All right. I’ll pay for it. Okay. So you and I, we’re, we’re gonna sit down, we’re gonna have a conversation and guess what, we’re able to resolve our own conflict. Right. Awesome. Great. That’s the way conflict is supposed to be resolved. Unfortunately, like we said, we are emotional human beings. So a lot of times, like in a relationship, you’re already hurting. So to sit down just with the other person and have a conversation is hard. I mean,

Sydney Mitchell:

So that, so that, and I love, I love the stove analogy and this is the first time I’ve ever heard you say that. And I really love it because it, it makes the district the distinction between, you know, emotions being present and they’re valid and they’re, and they’re, you know, they’re real and they’re important to acknowledge and their, their driving factors in this conflict. But they’re not the ones driving the solution. They’re not the ones making the decision. And I, and I, that’s kind of what I hear you saying.

Matthew Brickman:

Yes. Yeah. And, and, and yeah, and I really like how you put that where they are, they’re, they’re a factor but they cannot be the driving force.

Sydney Mitchell:

The determining factor, right?

Matthew Brickman:

Yeah. Because the driving force to solution is logic and reason not emotion. Because luck, if emotion can move you to a decision than another motion can move you out of that same exact decision.

Speaker 3:

Hmm.

Matthew Brickman:

I’ll say that again. If an emotion moves you into a decision, then another emotion can move you out of that same exact decision.

Speaker 3:

Hmm.

Matthew Brickman:

Whereas logic and reason is based in grounded in facts. And so if it’s factual will, then it is what it is. If it’s an emotional emotions go up and down. I mean, like I, I can look at you right now. I can look at you and make a face and get an emotion. But if we have a legal binding agreement that explains how you and I are going to treat each other regardless if I make that face or not, you really don’t care because you know that you’re protected by the facts that are in that agreement that either you and I created our own or go into step two. Now we’ve got to involve a neutral third party. So you know,

Sydney Mitchell:

How are you coming to the picture?

Matthew Brickman:

Exactly. So step one is you just do it on your own. Do it yourself. Keep, keep your money, retain your money, retain your sanity, retain your emotions. We talked about the toll of that in the last episode, but step two is if you can’t do it yourself, then you engage a neutral third party. So this would be like a therapist. Like, you know, if we’re in a relationship, then we’re going to go see a therapist. It’s a neutral third party that doesn’t have a vested interest. If you were right, I am right, doesn’t matter. They’re going to help us get through our conflict, right? It could be a pastor, it could be a neighbor. But you know, a lot of times if it is a divorce of eternity then that does send a lot of people then into mediation. And that is, yes, that’s where I come in. As the mediator, I’m the neutral third party that is trained to help you come to a resolution.

Sydney Mitchell:

At what point do people consider mediation? This is one of the things I was thinking about. You know, I’ve never, as I mentioned, I’ve never been married or divorced and I’ve never gone through the mediation process. What is it that finally drives somebody to say, okay we need a mediator, a friend, a counselor, a therapist, a pastor. It’s just not cutting it.

Matthew Brickman:

Yeah. Usually usually when two people are having the conversations and they feel like a wagon in the mud and is spinning and going nowhere at that point. Like you know, when, when the conversations, and we’re going to go back to emotions when the conversations become more emotional than logical and you’re getting angry at actually having to even have the conversation cause it’s not going anywhere. Like forget about the content of the conversation.

Sydney Mitchell:

The fact that you have to have,

Matthew Brickman:

We were just getting angry that, Oh my gosh, we’re having to talk about this again and we’re still getting no resolution. We’ll then, yeah, at that point engage a neutral third party.

Sydney Mitchell:

Okay. Okay. And then what happens when you come into the picture, a mediator comes into the picture and then that doesn’t solve the problem.

Matthew Brickman:

Well, okay. So, so before we get to step,

Sydney Mitchell:

Can’t find an agreement.

Matthew Brickman:

Yeah. So before we get to step three, cause that would be step three is bypassing me while actually bypassing me and then coming back to st anyway. But step two, step two, which is where they would then come and see me. You know, I am not, and I’m just gonna put this disclaimer out there. I am not an attorney, even though I went to law school. I’m not an attorney. I am, I cannot and will not give legal advice. But I am a, I’m a mediator. So my job is to help get creative. You know, just like you had said at the beginning, you know, my job is to empower people, help them get creative, create a new tomorrow, you know, place where they can create this is, this is coming to see me is then where they’re going to spend more than zero, but they’re going to save, as we had talked about prior, you know, with attorneys, they can save about 30 grand, you know, tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees by coming to see Mae. And you know, that’s, that’s where I come in. I can take them through the whole process, give them their paperwork, you know, I just can’t tell them, Hey, this is what you need to do with your life because you know, I’m not a decision maker. I’m not there to do that.

Sydney Mitchell:

Right. So let’s say a family comes to see you and they decide to hire an attorney. What is the role of the attorney in the situation here?

Matthew Brickman:

Okay, so, so step three, that takes us to step three. So step one is do it yourself. Step two, engage a neutral third party. That was where I would come in. And so step three if you either don’t want to engage a third party, you just, you want legal counsel or if you come to mediation and you choose not to settle it yourself with the help of a neutral third party, that’s where then you hire an advocate. So this is the difference between an attorney, like what is their role in mediation or what is their role versus a mediator. So an attorney you’re hiring as your advocate in your corner to give you legal advice, tell you how to apply the law to your case and they advise on your rights and entitlements under the law. And if necessary, then they are there to argue your case in front of the judge. And so once you get an attorney though, that doesn’t fast track you to court because in Florida, like in other States, in order to, to get a date to see a judge, you have to first go with your attorney. Now to a mediator. So going back to step two, you can go to a mediator. Step three find you hire an attorney. You still have to then come to a mediation.

Sydney Mitchell:

So it’s required regardless, at least. Is that, is that just for the state of Florida or is that,

Matthew Brickman:

It’s in a lot of different States. Not every state, but a lot of different States. And, and the reason for it is because the courts want the people to resolve their own conflict. So let’s go back to step one, resolve your own conflict. If you can’t, you go to a mediator, a neutral. If you still can’t, you’re going to hire your attorney and they’re going to send you to mediation because they want you to resolve your own conflict.

Sydney Mitchell:

Right? So basically the, the, the main thing we’re saying here is avoid Matthew.

Matthew Brickman:

Yeah. I mean, avoid Matthew, like avoid Matthew. Avoid the attorneys, avoid the court system. Try to figure it out yourself. A lot of people can’t because they are driven by emotion, not logic and reason, right? So they’re ordered by the judge to go with their attorney to mediation. The court wants you to resolve your own conflict, but sometimes people choose still not to settle and then they will get from me to the courts, a conference report that says, okay, they’ve, they’ve, they’ve complied with the order to go to mediation. Then the court will give the parties a date to go see the judge. But guess what, Sydney, 10 days before they get to see the judge, they have to come back to mediation to try to figure it out themselves again. Like the court does not want to figure this out. They will if they have to, but they don’t want to.

Sydney Mitchell:

Right. How often do people settle and then how often did the cases keep going to the point of being in the court? In front of a judge?

Matthew Brickman:

Okay, so let’s back up one step. They’ve gone and hired an attorney. They’ve then come and seen me. They got their date. They have to come see me again. And let’s say that they still can’t figure it out. Right? They’ll go to court, fine. You get to go to court. The judge will figure it out. Well, no, not necessarily. Sometimes the people are sent back to mediation with explicit instructions to figure it out. So to answer your question about, okay, like how many actually settled, people ask that all the time. Like, what’s the settlement rate like, you know, what, you know, how, you know, why, why mediation? Okay, so here’s here. Here’s the settlement rate. In 2016 and 2017 in the state of Florida 82%, that’s a pretty high number. 82% of the cases filed actually settled in their first mediation. So that’s a pretty high number.

Matthew Brickman:

82%. So that meant that 18% said, I’m going to let a judge figure it out. But somewhere along the way, either in the second mediation after depositions, after other legal processes, 15 of the 18% actually settled prior to actually step four, which is letting a judge designed. So only 3% actually even went to court to actually have a judge figure out their case. So those are really good statistics. So based on those statistics, that is why the courts said, guess what? If you can’t figure it out, step one, you can’t figure it out yourself, then guess what? You’re going to a neutral third party. Step two, you’ll can’t figure it out. Fine. You can get an attorney who’ll give you legal advice, but you’re still going to a mediator because mediation works empowering people work. And so many times people just don’t even know their options, so they just choose nothing.

Matthew Brickman:

Sometimes Sydney can be given so much like, have you ever gone to cheesecake factory? Oh my gosh, I love cheesecake factory, but I’ll never forget the first time I ever went. I was in Kansas city, went to, went to the cheesecake factory and I sat down and their menu was so thorough. It’s like I would never, I would never want to be a waiter. They’re like trying to memorize that, but, but you know what? I had so many options. It actually created indecision. I was overloaded with so much. I didn’t know what I wanted and so I shut down. And you know what, Sydney, so many people when dealing with conflict are like that. They’re, they’re a lot like a cheesecake factory menu. Not to bash a cheesecake factory. One of my favorite restaurants.

Sydney Mitchell:

That’s a lot of calories.

Matthew Brickman:

Oh my gosh. I love the Cajun chicken littles. I love cheesecake. So with that, with that, with that cheesecake factory, we love you. But

Sydney Mitchell:

Not an endorsement.

Matthew Brickman:

Yeah. But that is how a lot of people do approach it. And so in mediation, all of those overloaded, Oh my gosh, options are, are really put in a very simple, concise, organized fashion to where, okay, we’re going to go step by step through this process and Oh wow, the choices are not that overwhelming and now we can start making headway and start creating a resolution.

Sydney Mitchell:

So we’ve talked about the four different steps. First step, do it yourself. Step number two involve a neutral third party. Step number three, hire an attorney and set number four, it finally gets into the court in front of a judge. Yeah. So let’s say you know, somebody has to go through all of these four steps in their own conflict. How does that, how does this apply to everyday conflict that we handle? And how have you seen some of these? Some of these processes play out in what you do. Do you have any crazy stories of like,

Matthew Brickman:

Yeah, Oh my gosh, Sydney, this podcast is going to be nothing but crazy story. So, so I’ll tell you a story about a couple that came to me for mediation. They, they, they went through step one could not figure it out. So step two, they actually came to me without attorneys. They, they actually followed this process without even knowing, Oh there’s four steps. They were following it. So they came to me without their attorneys. And they chose not to settle. That was their choice. We went through the options and they didn’t like the options. They didn’t, they, they, they still couldn’t see IDI. They had different points of view and they couldn’t see eye to eye. So then they got their date to see the judge, cause you know, they went to mediation, they got their mediation, conference reports, they filed it, they got their date to see the judge 10 days prior to seeing the judge. Just like we talked about, they came back to mediation and they still didn’t settle. Okay. So then they went to court. Wow. Like I already told you, you know, it’s a possibility. The judge actually sent them back to mediation with explicit instructions. So there they are already, you know, three times in mediation. Now

Sydney Mitchell:

Again, back to where I started on this.

Matthew Brickman:

Right? But now they come back. So now one of the things they were arguing about was the father wanted equal time sharing. The mother wanted him to be a weekend dad while they were arguing. And, and it, it, that’s a pretty big chasm to, to bridge, right? But when they went to court to that particular judge ordered equal time sharing. Now in Florida, equal timesharing is not the law. But that judge ordered equal timeshare. So send them back with explicit structure to say, go back to mediation, create an equal time sharing agreement. So they came back to mediation, but this time needing to feel a little bit more empowered and wondering what exactly the judge’s order meant. They hired attorneys. So they went to step three, right? They, I can’t even say it with a straight face. And they still didn’t settle. These parties still didn’t settle.

Sydney Mitchell:

Does this happen often? Like people repeatedly?

Matthew Brickman:

No, I mean, look, you and I talked in the last episode. Luck. I’m a man. Sometimes I’m a little slow at learning. These people were really slow. Like these people were like tortoise, like was the actual hair slow obviously. Right. But remember we also talked about the cost of attorneys, right? And I work with some phenomenal attorneys. I knew both of their attorneys or attorneys were phenomenal, really good attorneys, but these were just really stubborn label. But what they found out was when they came back to mediation with their attorneys and then didn’t settle, that was an expensive day. So they ended up firing their attorneys because they ran out of money. Yeah. They fired their attorneys. They ran out of money and then they came back to mediation without their attorneys and they finally settled.

Sydney Mitchell:

That goes to show how, I mean, in all reality, we’re laughing here and stuff, but it really goes to show, gosh, the, the power and importance of solving conflict on your own, you know, whether that involves a mediator or not. You know, I find so many people, they’re making these emotional decisions, you know, going through this process and when you finally sit down, you think through the logic, you can communicate clearly and effectively, you know, you know, in some circumstances with, you know, with you by their side, you finally reach a resolution.

Matthew Brickman:

Yeah. Well, and, and I’ll tell you some times in mediation at the end when we have an agreement, one of the parties will say, you know what? This is almost exactly what I offered six months ago when I sat down with my husband or my wife and we had a conversation.

Sydney Mitchell:

Why is that the so,

Matthew Brickman:

So what I’ve learned in 13 years and thousands of mediations, what I’ve learned is some people just have to go through the process. It is just, it seems elementary.

Sydney Mitchell:

It’s that simple. Some people have to go through the process to feel as though they didn’t just cave, they didn’t just give in. But it’s an expensive, it’s an expensive process. Okay. One last question before we wrap up the petition. You just said something that, that sparked the question in me. How long is your average mediation? The average, the average is 3.75 but it gets you mean, but it could be depending on the situation and you know, willingness to cooperate and exactly. You know, it depends if the parties can all sit in a room together. It depends if I’m in a separate room, like for example when you went to mediation with me, the parties were in separate rooms or having to bounce back and forth. And so I’m having to tell the story and relay messages. I tell people that will cost you twice as much and take twice as long and be half as effective.

Sydney Mitchell:

But sometimes that’s, that’s the only way that it can get done. So just to recap, I mean, gosh, we could talk about conflict resolution for hours and I’ve got tons of more questions that I look forward to asking you in later episodes. But today as we talked about conflict resolution, we talked about the source of all conflict being those four D words. The feelings that you experience that kind of start, you know, pretty much start any disagreement that that oftentimes take place. And we talked through the four steps to resolving conflict. And in all of that, like I said, I think we can really take away some of these principles of communication and conflict resolution. One of the things that we talked when you repeatedly said was solve the conflict on your own. Right? I think that that’s something that we all can continue to work toward more efficient, effective communication that reflects our feelings but as motivated by logic and reason in order that both parties can live completely at peace.

Sydney Mitchell:

And so thank you Matthew for sharing your thoughts and experiences and fun stories about your experience as it pertains to conflict resolution. And I know that there are so many things I’ve heard you say that I’m like, Oh, putting that nugget in my lunch box, you know, to save for later because there are just some principles here that apply to us all. And so, so thank you for your insight and I’m really looking forward to our next episode. When we talk about the tone of the home when it comes to divorce.