Matthew Brickman:

Hi, I’m Matthew Brickman, Florida Supreme court mediator. Welcome to the Mediate This! Podcast where we discuss everything mediation and conflict resolution.

0:07 : Matthew Brickman : Good morning.
0:09 : Sol : Matthew, how are you doing? I’m.
0:11 : Matthew Brickman : Good. I’m sorry for this, no communication, what not, but I’m I’m excited to talk to you.
0:18 : Sol : It worked out. Yeah, it’s all good.
0:21 : Matthew Brickman : You’re, you’re in California, right?
0:23 : Sol : Yeah. Okay. Yeah, just north of San Francisco.
0:26 : Matthew Brickman : Yeah, ok. So good morning. It’s, good morning to you, good morning or good afternoon.
0:30 : Sol : That’s right. Yeah.
0:33 : Matthew Brickman : So, so yeah, so we’ll just we’ll just get going and just see where we go with this.
0:39 : Sol : Sounds great. Ready to go.
0:45 : Matthew Brickman : I am joined here today by Saul Kennedy. Good morning, good afternoon Saul. How are you?
0:51 : Sol : Good. How are you doing Matthew? Good to be on.
0:54 : Matthew Brickman : Good, so.
0:56 : Matthew Brickman : I guess tell me a little bit about yourself. I know one of the things I do want to talk to you about is about your app, really, really interested in your app, but you’re in, you’re in California, right?
1:06 : Sol : I am, yeah. I’m I’m located near San Francisco.
1:09 : Matthew Brickman : Right, and I think I read that you went to Berkeley.
1:13 : Sol : Did, yeah, go bears.
1:18 : Matthew Brickman : How are you involved in family law?
1:22 : Sol : Well, as many of us have gone through this path, I got involved because I myself went through a divorce and in my divorce, no one expects to get a divorce, but I ended up finding myself in a fairly high conflict situation and it was causing me.
1:42 : Sol : A lot of personal pain. And in that process, that was the spark of the idea that became the best interest app. And just to, to dive into that a little bit, I’ve always been a tech guy. I worked at Google, I started my own companies, and I found myself in this separation with two young kids.
2:03 : Sol : And I was receiving messages that were causing me to get defensive and reactive, and we were going thirty messages plus every day and we weren’t hearing one another. And so the realization was there needs to be, there must be a better way.
2:19 : Matthew Brickman : Right, so.
2:23 : Matthew Brickman : I have a similar story to you where I got into this, not expecting a divorce, but had a divorce and had two small kids. Mine were six and eight at the time when we first got divorced held, were your kids.
2:36 : Sol : Are there, let’s see, it would have been two and a half and four. Yeah.
2:42 : Matthew Brickman : Yeah, so I mean we had young kids.
2:45 : Matthew Brickman : Had We had a very simple easy divorce, we did it ourselves, no attorneys, no mediators, we did it ourselves, but a year later, started a twelve year war. And the judge was so sick and tired of saying us that they ordered us to mediation. I’d never heard of mediation, didn’t know what it was, and so.
3:05 : Matthew Brickman : We went to mediation and that’s how I then got inspired to become a mediator, so I went to school, got my degrees, because like you, but looking at tech, I was like, alright, other than litigation, there’s gotta be a better way. The problem let let me ask you that. So what year did you get divorced? And.
3:24 : Sol : Twenty twenty, in fact, we separated a month before the covid lockdowns and I I thank God for that timing. I.
3:33 : Matthew Brickman : That would have been an interesting lockdown period.
3:35 : Sol : You hear those stories.
3:37 : Matthew Brickman : Worries. Yeah, I heard stories. So, so I too am a tech guy. I loved tech, I’ve loved, you know, always be on the, you know, like try to get in front of it. And like, for example, this platform through Webex, I actually had Webex build me this platform in two thousand and nine.
3:58 : Matthew Brickman : Nobody had a communication portal, like, like, we had Skype back then, but it was only two way and there was nothing where we could do three or more have breakout sessions, and so I got a young tech guy on the phone when I was calling around trying to find something and they built this and I’ve had it ever since. So I’ve been doing virtual mediation s.
4:18 : Matthew Brickman : Oh nine, but for me, my X and I, when we got divorced, we got divorced to know one. We didn’t have absent I mean we didn’t we didn’t even have textings so all of our communication saw was really difficult because ours was handwritten notes and storing messages in Manila envelopes. So we didn’t have the.
4:39 : Matthew Brickman : That now as a mediator, either I’m recommending or the courts are ordering, which generally the three that are out there, I’m sure that you know is our family wizard talking parents and app clothes. Yep. But what makes best interests different from those? Cause I know how those.
5:02 : Matthew Brickman : Yours is different how?
5:04 : Sol : Well let’s step back for a moment cause I heard you say in, and when you were going through this, things were written down, it was there were no apps, and, and then the apps came along, right? And, and so these original apps are family wizard especially that was, I believe the first coparenting app that exist.
5:22 : Matthew Brickman : And.
5:23 : Sol : So what they said is, well, let’s bring it all together in an app to make the communication straightforward and allow you to track what’s sent been said, and that just was a good idea to.
5:36 : Sol : Act parents especially in these high conference situations.
5:39 : Sol : And what AI has allowed us to do? Is it allows us to inject.
5:47 : Sol : Mediation and moderation directly into that conversation stream. So no longer are you dealing with the situation where your co parent can send you whatever they want, now best interest can actually act as a shield, and that’s our main differentiator is that we will shield you from the.
6:07 : Sol : Toxic communication that you might receive from your X, anything that isn’t child focused, anything that isn’t in the best interests of the co parenting relationship will get stripped out or toned out. And then you can actually if you want to later on, when you’re feeling more resourced or with your with your attorney or your therapist, you.
6:27 : Sol : You can see that original message. But it allows you to stay present and be a good co parent, manage those exchanges properly without getting triggered all the time.
6:37 : Matthew Brickman : So where does, like, let’s say for example that somebody sends something that’s off topic has nothing to do with co parenting, they’re basically venting, right? So you’re saying that then the AI there will then section that off, does that like where does it go? Like, it, it.
6:58 : Matthew Brickman : It’s there, I guess it’s within the app, it’s just in a separate like folder or place that you can go find it later, you know.
7:05 : Sol : Essentially, but it’s really intelligent so let’s say you and I are co parenting and I’m feeling a little spicy today, so I’m gonna bring in some old stuff. Matt, I expect you to pick up the kids at nine AM today or else. Well, gosh, there’s a threat, there’s, you know, bringing up the old past, and that’s not gonna probably land well with.
7:26 : Sol : You’re gonna respond back with a joiner or a defensiveness, that’s not gonna be helpful. Well, with best interest, we have shielded you from that and it’s just gonna say, Soul expects the kids at nine a m. And it will indicate on the message that there’s more to the message, so you can actually go in later when you’re feeling more resources say.
7:46 : Sol : What is that extra stuff, right?
7:49 : Sol : You have to go through it when you’re with your kids or when you’re just managing a busy schedule, right? That’s not good for anyone. And it allows you to respond in a much more biff like manner where you’re, you’re just factual. You might respond to a message like that with ok, which will be perfectly fine. And it might even change the dynamic and take the.
8:10 : Sol : Heat out of it for both.
8:12 : Matthew Brickman : Well, because, you know, one of the things that I eventually learned with my X and I guess the app is starting to help with that was I didn’t know what my triggers were, but my X knew my triggers, right? So she could go in there and hit those triggers all day long to get me to re.
8:32 : Matthew Brickman : And then she fed off of that. What you’re saying is the app goes in there, it knows how to sort of.
8:40 : Matthew Brickman : Take away those things that might trigger me, so then I’m simply responding. Exactly. Instead of reacting to whatever all the rest of the noise in that message is being sent, correct? Yeah.
8:55 : Sol : Absolutely. And you know, you also, we always can find ourselves in trigger, even if our Ex sends us some things very benign, we’ve got a history, we might respond back with a full on trigger. So best interest will also review every message that you send. And if you’re sending something that isn’t gonna necessarily resul.
9:15 : Sol : In a very good response, we’ll pop up a message saying, oh, you may want to rephrase this. Here’s why. So that helps coach you into just a better way of, of interacting with your co parent.
9:28 : Matthew Brickman : So, so it takes so I’m familiar with like the tone meter with our family wizard. It’s similar to that, but it’s not tone. It’s everything. It’s like sort of metering just not just I I was I would say you can never over communicate. It’s usually the tone or.
9:49 : Matthew Brickman : How you’re communicating. And like you said, like it could be something that could be like.
9:55 : Matthew Brickman : Please pick the kids up at nine a. M. And that could be a trigger to me going, well, there you go again trying to tell me what to do. Something so simple, right?
10:05 : Sol : Yeah.
10:06 : Matthew Brickman : But Depending on how we’re currently relating to each other. I’ll give you an example. I was in mediation once and I got a text message from my X Now my X lived out of state. I had our kids. She lived in New York. I lived in florida. I had her kids, but I was in mediation all day.
10:26 : Matthew Brickman : Day, ok? And I, I get a text message from her that says Cassie’s sick and needs to be picked up from school, ok? That that was my daughter. Yeah. Doctor depending on how we’re relating at that moment in time, right? Depends on how I receive that message.
10:47 : Matthew Brickman : For example, just like you were saying with with like how the AI guests would go in there is I could look at it like you don’t even live here. How dear you try to tell me what to do with our daughter? You’re not even active parent. In fact, you abandoned them. Like I could go in and play the whole history in my head, right? Yeah. If, if.
11:07 : Matthew Brickman : If that’s how I’m re if that’s where I am in that moment in time with her or I could look at it and be like, oh, well I’ve been a mediation all the all day. I didn’t even know my daughter was sick. Alright, thanks for the heads up.
11:20 : Matthew Brickman : Yeah. So much of it just depends on where we are in that moment in time. So how does the program, like how would the program know how, to filter, rephrase, send that to me, like, how does it know that? So.
11:35 : Sol : So it learns over time about your, your relate like how you relate to your co parent, what you send to each other, and based on that learning, it does improve it understands the triggers over time better than it.
11:49 : Matthew Brickman : So cool.
11:51 : Sol : But also what’s interesting is that just having this.
11:56 : Sol : App installed allows you to get out of your own head sometimes because you’re not receiving the raw communication from your X you’re receiving a message that was parsed through a filter that’s been trained on coparenting conflict. And that allows you to kind of.
12:12 : Sol : Realize, oh wait, so it, it doesn’t, the AI doesn’t think this is triggering. I’m feeling triggered. Why am I feeling triggered? Maybe I’m just doing it to myself. Yeah. So basically.
12:23 : Matthew Brickman : Self aware.
12:25 : Sol : Yeah, it allows you to step out of that dynamic as well.
12:30 : Matthew Brickman : It’s even better than a tone meter, like you’re going, it’s a self meter, like check yourself.
12:37 : Matthew Brickman : Not just oh well it’s just a word that I’m typing. Well, so what other So what about what other features other than the communication just like, you know, texting back and forth, does it like what other features are in the app that might be similar to some of the other co parenting apps that everyone’s familiar with?
12:52 : Sol : Yeah, we have all of very similar features to some of the other co parenting apps, calendar scheduling, that sort of thing, trades, the things that you would expect in a traditional app, but we started with in our core really is about the communication because the philosophy is that all conflicts starts with.
13:13 : Sol : Communication, and if we can help reduce the conflict in the beginning, then all the rest of the stuff just gets a lot easier. Yeah. The main other differentiator that I haven’t mentioned yet is that we’re the only co parenting app that allows you to use the app on your own. So if you’re listening to this today and you’re.
13:33 : Sol : I’m in a high conflict co parenting situation, what do I do? I can’t get my co parent to agree to anything, let alone getting an app to reduce conflict. You can download best interest and without your co parent even knowing that you’re using an app, you can essentially have all their text messages flow through the app, and then when you respond back, it.
13:54 : Sol : It goes out through text messaging. So your co parent doesn’t have to change their behavior at all for you to benefit.
14:02 : Matthew Brickman : And I’m, that’s taken me a second. All right, so.
14:06 : Sol : Yeah.
14:06 : Matthew Brickman : Like again under the scenario, you and I are co parenting. So, so if you and I are starting off and we’re texting and it’s just not good. Yeah, then, and let’s say for example, you said to me hey Matthew, we need to download best interests, and I’m like, I’m downloading an app and communicating.
14:28 : Matthew Brickman : You could download it. I could still be on text and then you’re saying then that you could use best interest to then like connect to your text, so then when my texts come in, it does its AI filtering and thing, and then when you use best interest to communicate back to me, it’ll do its thing.
14:46 : Sol : Yeah, you don’t even know as the other person that isn’t involved with the best interest app. Right, you don’t necessarily know that anything’s going on.
14:56 : Matthew Brickman : Different, you.
14:56 : Sol : Right, so the the user of the best interest app, the co parent, they are getting all the features, all the AI processing, all the, the tone guardian, and that sort of thing. And it’s benefiting them. And it’s also benefiting the whole relationship. About sixty percent of our users use it in solomo mode.
15:22 : Matthew Brickman : Why.
15:25 : Matthew Brickman : Why is it not being used in, I guess, parenting mode? I mean I I guess I guess I call it parenting mode, like two people like I mean oh so so from a mediator standpoint, I’ll tell you from mediator standpoint.
15:40 : Matthew Brickman : Well, ok, let me let me go step higher, then we’ll go down to mediator. So in Florida.
15:48 : Matthew Brickman : Most of the judges, they order an app.
15:52 : Sol : Of course, yeah.
15:53 : Matthew Brickman : It’s not even it’s it’s like like if it gets to them, they’re gone, you’re going on an app. So as a mediator, we’re always trying to head that off at the past and so we’re going, alright, so like when I, when I’m doing my, my mediation agreements and I get to the communication section, I’m like, ok, which app? Not.
16:13 : Matthew Brickman : Are you using an app? Which app, right? And so, it’s because I’ve always said.
16:21 : Matthew Brickman : Apps are great for three types of people, ok? Apps are great for those high conflict cases that just have horrible communication because hopefully it’ll at least make you aware and help you try to get better communication. Okay, Apps are also good for those that have ok communication because, you know.
16:42 : Matthew Brickman : Hopefully it’s not gonna get any worse and hopefully it will get a little bit better. Okay, the third person or the third type of people it’s for, it’s for those parents I have really good communication. And it’s there to maintain your really good communication, so therefore, it’s good for everybody.
16:58 : Sol : Yeah, I mean.
16:59 : Matthew Brickman : Not a huge fan of the apps and so we’re so you know when mediation, you know, when I’m we with the attorneys without the attorney, like, it’s like which app? So there’s not even an opportunity for, ok, a solo version because we’re putting.
17:20 : Matthew Brickman : Putting them into all the mediation agreements that are getting into court orders and if they don’t get in there and they go to trial, the judges are ordering them. So I’m just wondering how dupe people even.
17:31 : Matthew Brickman : Get to the point of solo cause like they’re not getting solo with me, like it’s in every agreement. So how does that like who, who are those people that are using Is that like pre meet possibly pre mediation, pre litigation, like.
17:47 : Sol : That’s a.
17:48 : Matthew Brickman : To walked me through that, like who’s, who’s solo.
17:51 : Sol : That’s a great question. So what we’re finding is that the people that are joining us in solar mode, one, this is the first coparingting app that is solving for their situation. All the co parenting apps require you to both either have an agreement, a mediator, a judge order, something to, to use it together if if both parties don’t agree on their own.
18:12 : Sol : So this is what we’re doing is we’re solving for the, the either earlier on when they haven’t even gotten to the court system and they’re just experiencing this garage of of toxic messaging and they’re just reading water and trying to survive. They can download best interests and, and, and receive.
18:32 : Sol : Support from the very beginning without having to get a court order. So we’re definitely solving for that. And we’re also solving for those that, for whatever reason, aren’t going out and maybe they can’t afford to go the legal route, right? So it’s helping those people as well. All right.
18:50 : Matthew Brickman : Okay, so, I know that some of the other apps are starting to integrate like talking, like phone calls as well as video.
19:01 : Sol : Yes, we have that coming later this year.
19:03 : Matthew Brickman : Okay, so that’s coming. And then also they’ve got I I would assume attached documents for document exchange, all of that stuff. I know I, you know the you know the feed, you know, I’ve never used any of the apps because of course, you know, by the time they came out, I have kids at advanced.
19:24 : Matthew Brickman : So I’m I mean I’m familiar with the features, I know the websites, I, you know, and then I get feedback from people, you know, from, from the people that are using them or from the attorneys that have experienced issues with their clients or needed their records for, for court or whatnot. You know.
19:44 : Matthew Brickman : Some of the differences that I’ve heard like with family, our family wizard, you’ve got to, you know, they, they, they have adults, so you pay a little bit extra to get the tone meter, you pay a little extra to then have your phone calls recorded and have storage or whatnot. Whereas like with talking parents, everything.
20:06 : Matthew Brickman : Recorded, everything is there. There’s no extra add on there just, you know, the different, the different pricing models. App closed for the longest time was just that it was app only. They finally just made that also, I mean I say Jessica I think within a couple months, they made that where you can also log in just like I’m talking parents and family wizard.
20:27 : Matthew Brickman : On the website, so it’s web and app based.
20:31 : Matthew Brickman : All of them now have I believe the calling features, app close is not recordable, at least last I checked. They’re non recordable. Family wizard and talking parents are recordable. One of the things I did hear about app closed, we’ve not been recommending it for about a month now is I did find out from app close.
20:51 : Matthew Brickman : I found this out from an attorney that had a client that was using it was one of the parties had just like gone off on the other party. And so, and so the party was like, I’m downloading this I’m gonna give it to my attorney and we’re going to court. And the other one’s like I’m I’m just gonna delete my account. When they deleted the account, it deleted everything, everyone, all the, all the communication.
21:11 : Matthew Brickman : Yeah, so it wasn’t just, oh, well, they deleted their account, all the information’s still there. When they deleted the account, it wiped the account.
21:19 : Matthew Brickman : Yeah, that’s not good. Like, that’s not a good feature at all. So until they.
21:23 : Sol : You didn’t need that record.
21:25 : Matthew Brickman : They get that back. Like you could totally go off, that’s the whole point of using it, right? Like even if even text doesn’t do that. I don’t know if it was a glitch. I don’t know, but I know that a number of attorneys were not happy.
21:41 : Sol : Tricky situation because.
21:43 : Sol : Especially here in California, we have some really strict privacy laws right to delete and so I wonder if they were maybe looking to comply with that. What we do to comply with that is you can delete your account. If you’re part of a two party account where you’re both sharing messages, you can delete your own account, but the other parent retains a copy of all.
22:04 : Sol : The communication because that is what they own that. Just like if I delete my phone number on Verizon, it doesn’t delete everyone else’s text messaging or something.
22:14 : Matthew Brickman : Right. So.
22:21 : Matthew Brickman : They are, so, so when you’ve got two parents, ok, so I’m gonna go through like this in my mind, I’m going through like the setup process, ok? So let’s say for example, that the two parents want to use the best interest app. How do they connect that? Like, ok, I’m gonna log in, like.
22:41 : Matthew Brickman : Like how would you and I then connect? So.
22:44 : Sol : Crazy, so you both sign up for an account and then one or the other invites using an invite code, so you can just send a six digit code to the other co parent and then it links the two of you up. So it’s all permission based.
22:59 : Matthew Brickman : Okay, and then and then what about, what about for like the solo? How does that, how, how do you do that then?
23:06 : Sol : The solomo mode the way that works is you download the app and you enter your coparents phone number, you enter your phone number and then what we do is we’ll assign you a new number and you can send that to your co parents. So you can say, Hey Matthew, I have a new phone number, please text me here from now on. And.
23:26 : Sol : And from then on, then all their messages go through the app.
23:31 : Matthew Brickman : Okay, yeah, I was wondering how you would take like whatever.
23:35 : Matthew Brickman : Message app that they’re using and how that would then connect and import. But yeah, if.
23:41 : Sol : This works like the SMS.
23:42 : Matthew Brickman : And then assigning them a, a special number.
23:46 : Sol : Exactly. Yeah.
23:47 : Matthew Brickman : And now.
23:50 : Matthew Brickman : Would that be hypothetically cause you said it’s coming later this year, so when they are calling or facetiming, would the app then assign a separate number to be able to do that through the app or.
24:02 : Sol : It’s a really good question. Right now, video mode is gonna be for those that are using the app together. So.
24:09 : Matthew Brickman : Right.
24:10 : Sol : Together mode, you can video each other, you can get transcriptions of the call, that sort of thing.
24:16 : Sol : Yeah.
24:17 : Matthew Brickman : Didn’t.
24:18 : Sol : Video features. So.
24:19 : Matthew Brickman : I wouldn’t imagine that you would need so yeah I wasn’t talking about that for solomo mode.
24:25 : Sol : So the one thing with solom mode, though, is that even today we have a feature because your new number should act like a phone number, so if you’re co parent calls you on that number especially for emergency situations, it acts like a real phone number. It calls your number on your phone and you can answer it just as if you’re receiving a call from your copar.
24:47 : Matthew Brickman : Sort of like, like, like I used to have, what was it I had? I guess I had a Google number that I had.
24:53 : Sol : Google voice. And then.
24:54 : Matthew Brickman : Yeah, google voice. Yeah, Google voice. And then I could just like forward that to my regular phone or like even like I even had an eight hundred number for a long time or an eight an eight seven seven, and I just forwarded it. And so on my phone it would just pop up. I labeled it, it would just pop up and say, you know.
25:11 : Sol : Yeah, this is essentially the.
25:12 : Matthew Brickman : Three hundred and it was just forwarded through but at least I knew so for example, if you were calling me, at least I would know, oh, this is coming through best interest app. I mean I could label it whatever whatever I want to name that phone number on my phone, right?
25:26 : Sol : Yeah, and you’ll, you’ll know that you can add that number to your contacts and also we will let you know that it’s your coparent calling and give you the opportunity to accept the call. So everything is permission based.
25:38 : Matthew Brickman : Right. Yeah I mean it’s just like a regular phone number. It’s like do I want to accept or decline? Decline we’re having dinner.
25:45 : Matthew Brickman : Thing, right?
25:46 : Sol : Yeah.
25:48 : Sol : Thing you mentioned earlier that I I’d love to circle back to around these co parenting apps and how they’re used in.
25:57 : Sol : Court situations.
25:59 : Sol : I would love to get your take on this, but from my perspective, having worked with.
26:05 : Sol : My clients and coparents that have come to us from other apps, they end up finding themselves in, in a bit of a, a toxic court cycle where they go to court, they’re in a high confidence situation, they present evidence here. This is what I’m receiving from my co parent. It’s not egregious enough to alter the custody orders or or change the parenting time.
26:26 : Sol : So the judge says, ok, you need to use a co parenting app. Okay, well, then they download the app, they install it. The co parenting apps today, other than best interest, don’t do a lot about the messaging. And so because they’re not doing anything about the messaging, then they end up having to go back to court. Now with evidence saying this is what’s actually.
26:45 : Sol : Being sent, then the judges don’t have a lot they can do. Unless it rises to the level of adjusting the custody orders.
26:54 : Matthew Brickman : So alright, so in Florida, in our statute, I think they did this.
27:00 : Matthew Brickman : I think somewhere around twenty nineteen, but what they did was they actually So, you know, a lot of times when.
27:10 : Matthew Brickman : When the attorneys would go to court, just like something like that, and then the judge would be like, so what do you want me to do about it? Like, what’s the remedy, right?
27:18 : Sol : Yeah.
27:19 : Matthew Brickman : Of course, you know, depending on the attorney, they may go for cut their head off, drawn quarter of like right, like, you know, throw them in jail forever and, you know, and of, and of course the other one’s like, no, and then they’re like, well, ok, well, we had to spend money at least give us the attorney’s fees or or whatnot.
27:40 : Matthew Brickman : So what they did in Florida was they actually put in the statute and gave the judges direction. Now, what they used was they used the word May, not shall, but May. So at leaves it open to judicial discretion depending on what is being viol.
28:01 : Matthew Brickman : And how gregious it is. So some of the remedies, so here’s the remedies that at least in Florida we have in the statute. So you’ve got the reimbursement of reasonable attorneys fees and costs, right? Like if.
28:14 : Sol : Sure.
28:14 : Matthew Brickman : If it was like if usually if it gets to the point where we’ve got to go to court, like, not just like, yeah, they said I I was ugly, like, but you know if it’s pretty bad and usually what, what, what the attorney is saying what I say is the mediator is look, if you if if this is going on for ninety days, I mean if.
28:35 : Matthew Brickman : This is just, this is not a one off. This is not you like if this is just just let it go and if you did, this is just happening for like ninety days alright fine. Because otherwise.
28:48 : Matthew Brickman : What we think is important to the judge that hears and sees it every single day, it’s not. One of the things that I learned was I I went into court cause we fought for twelve years. I went into court with pages of and she violated this and violated this and violated this. It.
29:09 : Matthew Brickman : It was like going in there with the machine got and just spraying the wall and hoping I hit something, right? Sure. Instead of going in sort of like a sniper and just going, ok, this is what it is, right? Well, so what happened was I would go in with the list of complaints, the judges, you know, when you get to like.
29:29 : Matthew Brickman : Complaint number twelve, right? The judge, the judge yeah exactly. The judge is like oh really Matthew, like really and again like really? So so what the judges kept doing was they would say to her, just not get off. And I’m going, that’s it.
29:50 : Matthew Brickman : Now here’s the problem. You know that if I took the time, took the money, got the attorney, and we showed up and the judge goes, basically slap on the wrist that’s it, go away. You know what I just did? I just fed my own monster.
30:06 : Sol : Sure. And.
30:07 : Matthew Brickman : Not away with it. So now whatever, whatever I had on that entire list, they’re gonna now try to push that envelope and take it to the next level. That’s what I did for twelve years. Wow, it was, it was a disaster, right? But we didn’t we we didn’t have these remedies. So one of them is, you know, the court may.
30:29 : Matthew Brickman : Or, sorry, the party maybe entitled to reimbursement of attorney’s fees and costs, maybe entitled to make up time sharing if applicable. Maybe required to attend an additional parenting course, May perform community service or may.
30:48 : Matthew Brickman : Have the time sharing schedule modified or any other appropriate sanction including contempt that the court may deem proper due to the nature of the default. So it gives the judge at least some direction, but it gives them latitude as well, right? Sure. Now, of all of those, the one that.
31:09 : Matthew Brickman : Just doesn’t make sense to me at all until it happened one time. And then I’m like, ok. Performed community service. Wouldn’t the world do you have to do violating a parenting plan that your revedy is performed community service, right? Yeah, ok, you want to know what it was?
31:30 : Sol : But.
31:30 : Matthew Brickman : Okay, so so the dad had so much money, he didn’t care. And so the judge kept going pay her attorney’s fees. Pay her, I’m gonna sanction you, you know what? I’m gonna, you know, I mean, whatever, and he was just like, you know, grading dollar bills all day long, he didn’t care, right? He was like, whatever.
31:51 : Matthew Brickman : Because he was willing to pay to play just an aggravator.
31:54 : Sol : Wow.
31:54 : Matthew Brickman : Also the judge ordered him to pick up garbage on the side of the road. You know what, we’re gonna bruise your lego. And I’m like, oh, so it’s there as a remedy. A lot of times, you know what a lot so so in Florida we’ve got, you know, it’s in our statute and by judicial order that parents are required to take a parenting.
32:15 : Matthew Brickman : Course get the parenting certificate in order to either do the paternity action or the divorce if there’s kids involved. There is an advanced one, and so that’s where then it’s like, ok, well, you obviously didn’t learn enough in just a general one that everybody’s got it. We’re gonna you’ve gotta take the additional parenting course.
32:35 : Matthew Brickman : And so, but those are the remedies at least that are there depending on the nature, but again, we always recommend myself as a mediator and then the attorneys that I’ve worked with say, hey, look, you know what? If it’s ninety days, I mean unless it’s like threatening your life type of a thing I’m gonna kill you blow up the house, kill our kid, like.
32:56 : Matthew Brickman : Okay fine. If you’re getting, you know, something like that, but a lot of times it’s just irritating stuff or.
33:04 : Sol : Sure.
33:06 : Matthew Brickman : It could, you know, it could be like, you know.
33:11 : Matthew Brickman : Pending on how you’re relating to them, it could feel threatening even though it wasn’t meant threatening. One of the things, one of the things that, one of the things that I, that I always recommend to people because so I did my education in two thousand five six and seven. And, and I did it all online. I was, I was with Caplain University then Concord.
33:31 : Matthew Brickman : Law school in California. And it was all online. And what was interesting was they had, you know, back then they were teaching us how to write with emotion because we’re on message boards and we’re having to debate and argue, but we don’t have things like you’ve got like AI and like even tone meters and stuff. And I’ll tell.
33:52 : Matthew Brickman : One of the greatest things that happened to text message and email was was emojis.
33:59 : Matthew Brickman : Really helped. So.
34:02 : Matthew Brickman : Until these apps started to come out, when we had texting, we had email, I was I was recommending people I’m like, use an emoji, a wink, a smile, a roll the, like something because like when when I was in school, they were teaching us how to write with that. Like alright, you know, smiling with you, but.
34:22 : Matthew Brickman : And then I would then debate with you, right? Yeah.
34:25 : Sol : I remember those charts of the Ascii emojis that you could make and what they meant.
34:31 : Matthew Brickman : Yeah, yeah, and so those that helped, but I really liked the idea of having.
34:39 : Matthew Brickman : Just like you said with the best interest, having that AI.
34:44 : Matthew Brickman : Read what you say reformat it redo it, and if it’s learning, like if it knows, like, I could just be by nature, just a sarcastic person.
34:54 : Matthew Brickman : It would learn that, oh, ok, Matthew’s back on, he’s been sarcastic to solve. Okay, we’ll just rewrite this.
35:05 : Sol : Well, and it can be really empowering to.
35:08 : Sol : To employ an app like best Interest into your co parent dynamic dynamic because you don’t need the courts to intervene.
35:18 : Sol : You can actually reduce the conflict on your own, even in solomode, you can do it without your coparents involvement, but if you’re working together, the conflict just naturally reduces.
35:28 : Matthew Brickman : But I mean that’s that’s the whole point and I told them that’s the whole point of using the app is so you don’t need to come back to us, you don’t need to go to court like it’s not, we’re not there using apps to set the other person up so we can gather evidence. No, you’re there so that you guys can coherent.
35:48 : Sol : Imagine it helps the mediation process tremendously when the two parties aren’t coming in having just biggered about the school lunchboxes not being returned.
35:58 : Matthew Brickman : That would, that would definitely help. It would definitely.
36:00 : Sol : Yeah.
36:01 : Matthew Brickman : So one of the points hope. So.

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